2 Extra Heroes versus Auto-Spawning Zombie Horde (21)

[Twilight_Sonata]

The people that I play with generally agree on two things:

1) It's not very fun to only control 1 Hero, because you end up doing pretty much nothing on most turns. "*Waits 8 minutes* My turn? Awesome. Um, I roll a 3 for movement and move into this building. *Waits 8 more minutes* My turn? Okay, I Search and get a Lighter *Waits 8 more minutes*" And this just gets even worse with Zombie Cards like Locked Door, Trip, The Line is Dead, Bickering, This Could Be Our Last Night On Earth, and so on. Controlling 2 Heroes is perfect. You can be more substantially involved in the flow of the game, you can work more strategies without speaking aloud and tipping the Zombie Player off, and you even end up with a larger hand of Event cards to work with on your own.

2) Having 2 Zombie Players is more trouble than its worth. Yeah, both are doing stuff, but depending on the pair of players, because they take their turn simultaneously, it often ends up that one Player dominates the other and just tells them what to do. Plus, there's all of the added unnecessary confusion of what Zombie Cards apply to what Zombies, what Zombies should the Heroes try to kill to lower the odds of more spawning, who controls this Zombie Hero or that Red Zombie this time, etc. 1 Zombie Player is just better for everybody.

What this means is that, when we get together, we usually treat this as a game for 3, with 1 Zombie Player and 2 Hero Players with 2 Heroes each. However, I've recently been looking at the online scenarios, and I'm very curious about the Extra Heroes rule provided by All Hallows Eve II: The Ritual. I figure that maybe we could make this a good game for 4 by adding in 2 Extra Heroes in return for giving the Zombie Player the Zombies Auto-Spawn and Zombie Horde (21) rules, resulting in 1 Zombie Player and 3 Hero Players each controlling 2 Heroes. Not exactly symmetrical (10 dots for the Heroes versus 8 dots for the Zombies), but Zombies tend to win more than should be proportionately appropriate for us anyway. So, has anybody ever experimented with the Extra Heroes option? And if so, how did it turn out?

[friskers96]

What sets are you playing with??

One way to balance the dot is to hit a building at the start with a lights out or taken over. Those have a 2 dot cost (either 2 buildings random with lights out or 1 building zombie choice). Lights out would be a little less brutal to start, since taken over can add a lot more zombies to the mix.

I think it's funny, I read one thread and they say the game is tilted toward zombies, another says heroes. I need to get some game stats going so I can see where my games are leaning, between the wife and I, I think her and her zombies are ahead. For someone who's says they don't like zombies, she plays them like they have been bosom buddies for years..

[PJON]

Zombie do win more often, when they are controlled by the right Zombie Mistress. Tell your wifey, I like her

(04-29-2013 04:36 PM)friskers96 Wrote:  I think it's funny, I read one thread and they say the game is tilted toward zombies, another says heroes. I need to get some game stats going so I can see where my games are leaning, between the wife and I, I think her and her zombies are ahead. For someone who's says they don't like zombies, she plays them like they have been bosom buddies for years..

Yup Yup, Zombie get to Pick 2 dots From the Fun Chart :p

[Twilight_Sonata]

(04-29-2013 04:36 PM)friskers96 Wrote:  What sets are you playing with??

The original, Growing Hunger, and Timber Peak.

Quote:One way to balance the dot is to hit a building at the start with a lights out or taken over. Those have a 2 dot cost (either 2 buildings random with lights out or 1 building zombie choice).

Is that from an expansion that I don't have? Because I don't see it listed anywhere...

Quote:I think it's funny, I read one thread and they say the game is tilted toward zombies, another says heroes.

It depends on the players, and it also depends on what you consider a lean to be. I, for example, consider a 1:1 win rate to be the Zombies winning disproportionately, because the game is best balanced for 3 or 6 players, only a third of which are Zombie players. The true "balanced" win ratio for this game should be 1:2 in favor of the Heroes. In other words, Zombies should win a third of the time because they're a third of the players.

[friskers96]

I see your point on the balance call, I just read about three threads where everyone says the game leans more towards one than the other and it's never the same side.. I think from my experience that its pretty well rounded, the balance only seems to shift for us when the dice and draws crap out...

The lights out rule and the taken over rule was from SOTF.

[friskers96]

(04-29-2013 07:31 PM)PJON Wrote:  Zombie do win more often, when they are controlled by the right Zombie Mistress. Tell your wifey, I like her

(04-29-2013 04:36 PM)friskers96 Wrote:  I think it's funny, I read one thread and they say the game is tilted toward zombies, another says heroes. I need to get some game stats going so I can see where my games are leaning, between the wife and I, I think her and her zombies are ahead. For someone who's says they don't like zombies, she plays them like they have been bosom buddies for years..

Yup Yup, Zombie get to Pick 2 dots From the Fun Chart :p

The wife giggled ecstatically and says thanks
She thinks its great that she beats me at "my" game...

[StayPuft]

(04-29-2013 11:31 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote:  1) It's not very fun to only control 1 Hero, because you end up doing pretty much nothing on most turns. "*Waits 8 minutes* My turn? Awesome. Um, I roll a 3 for movement and move into this building. *Waits 8 more minutes* My turn? Okay, I Search and get a Lighter *Waits 8 more minutes*" And this just gets even worse with Zombie Cards like Locked Door, Trip, The Line is Dead, Bickering, This Could Be Our Last Night On Earth, and so on. Controlling 2 Heroes is perfect. You can be more substantially involved in the flow of the game, you can work more strategies without speaking aloud and tipping the Zombie Player off, and you even end up with a larger hand of Event cards to work with on your own.

You know, I actually find this too. Well, I mean I guess I wouldn't necessarily say that I don't find it fun to control one hero. However, I definitely think it is better to control 2. My personal prefence is for 2 hero players each controlling two heroes. Then, you get more than one character, so it isn't like you are waiting a while for your turn just to wind up not getting to do much. However, you also don't have so many different characters that it gets to be confusing, such as when one person controls all 4 heroes. Don't get me wrong, I love playing when I control one hero, and love playing when I control 4, but I just think 2 makes for the best balance.

I also think you definitely will find that the majority of us (if not all of us) agree with you that it is definitely preferable to have one zombie player instead of two. Again, two is still fun, but one is preferable.

Just wanted to add my two cents on that. Others can perhaps comment more on how to balance out adding extra heroes to the game. I've never tried that myself.

[mavorik]

(04-29-2013 11:31 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote:  The people that I play with generally agree on two things:

1) It's not very fun to only control 1 Hero, because you end up doing pretty much nothing on most turns. "*Waits 8 minutes* My turn? Awesome. Um, I roll a 3 for movement and move into this building. *Waits 8 more minutes* My turn? Okay, I Search and get a Lighter *Waits 8 more minutes*" And this just gets even worse with Zombie Cards like Locked Door, Trip, The Line is Dead, Bickering, This Could Be Our Last Night On Earth, and so on. Controlling 2 Heroes is perfect. You can be more substantially involved in the flow of the game, you can work more strategies without speaking aloud and tipping the Zombie Player off, and you even end up with a larger hand of Event cards to work with on your own.

2) Having 2 Zombie Players is more trouble than its worth. Yeah, both are doing stuff, but depending on the pair of players, because they take their turn simultaneously, it often ends up that one Player dominates the other and just tells them what to do. Plus, there's all of the added unnecessary confusion of what Zombie Cards apply to what Zombies, what Zombies should the Heroes try to kill to lower the odds of more spawning, who controls this Zombie Hero or that Red Zombie this time, etc. 1 Zombie Player is just better for everybody.

What this means is that, when we get together, we usually treat this as a game for 3, with 1 Zombie Player and 2 Hero Players with 2 Heroes each. However, I've recently been looking at the online scenarios, and I'm very curious about the Extra Heroes rule provided by All Hallows Eve II: The Ritual. I figure that maybe we could make this a good game for 4 by adding in 2 Extra Heroes in return for giving the Zombie Player the Zombies Auto-Spawn and Zombie Horde (21) rules, resulting in 1 Zombie Player and 3 Hero Players each controlling 2 Heroes. Not exactly symmetrical (10 dots for the Heroes versus 8 dots for the Zombies), but Zombies tend to win more than should be proportionately appropriate for us anyway. So, has anybody ever experimented with the Extra Heroes option? And if so, how did it turn out?

I agree. One zombie player is the way to go. However I think it works ok having one hero per player, provided other players don't take forever!

[StayPuft]

(05-02-2013 10:56 PM)mavorik Wrote:  

(04-29-2013 11:31 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote:  The people that I play with generally agree on two things:

1) It's not very fun to only control 1 Hero, because you end up doing pretty much nothing on most turns. "*Waits 8 minutes* My turn? Awesome. Um, I roll a 3 for movement and move into this building. *Waits 8 more minutes* My turn? Okay, I Search and get a Lighter *Waits 8 more minutes*" And this just gets even worse with Zombie Cards like Locked Door, Trip, The Line is Dead, Bickering, This Could Be Our Last Night On Earth, and so on. Controlling 2 Heroes is perfect. You can be more substantially involved in the flow of the game, you can work more strategies without speaking aloud and tipping the Zombie Player off, and you even end up with a larger hand of Event cards to work with on your own.

2) Having 2 Zombie Players is more trouble than its worth. Yeah, both are doing stuff, but depending on the pair of players, because they take their turn simultaneously, it often ends up that one Player dominates the other and just tells them what to do. Plus, there's all of the added unnecessary confusion of what Zombie Cards apply to what Zombies, what Zombies should the Heroes try to kill to lower the odds of more spawning, who controls this Zombie Hero or that Red Zombie this time, etc. 1 Zombie Player is just better for everybody.

What this means is that, when we get together, we usually treat this as a game for 3, with 1 Zombie Player and 2 Hero Players with 2 Heroes each. However, I've recently been looking at the online scenarios, and I'm very curious about the Extra Heroes rule provided by All Hallows Eve II: The Ritual. I figure that maybe we could make this a good game for 4 by adding in 2 Extra Heroes in return for giving the Zombie Player the Zombies Auto-Spawn and Zombie Horde (21) rules, resulting in 1 Zombie Player and 3 Hero Players each controlling 2 Heroes. Not exactly symmetrical (10 dots for the Heroes versus 8 dots for the Zombies), but Zombies tend to win more than should be proportionately appropriate for us anyway. So, has anybody ever experimented with the Extra Heroes option? And if so, how did it turn out?

I agree. One zombie player is the way to go. However I think it works ok having one hero per player, provided other players don't take forever!

Yeah, agreed. Some people do take too long when they play. LOL! I have to, somewhat jokingly, confess that my best friend is one of those people. LOL! He overthinks everything and our games wind up taking something like 3 hours when it would normally take 1, maybe 1.5. But, I love the guy and I have a lot of fun playing with him, so I don't bother to say anything. Hell, just means the fun lasts longer.

[aldrichgreg]

I hear all your complaints. I think you should try what you suggest and let us know

I do think adding some random "lights out" to start could help create more balance.

my group twists the rules a lot and we often play with 6 heroes to a 21 potential zombie pool and it isn't a problem (other than it does increase game length a lot to move that many pieces). hopefully, you will get some time back from our group by keeping the players to 4.