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De-randomizng the adventures
02-15-2013, 03:11 PM (This post was last modified: 02-15-2013 03:29 PM by Pfr_Fate.)
Post: #1
De-randomizng the adventures
You know...I like almost everything about Fang. I painted it up and organized and pimped it. My pal came over excited to play. My kids are excited to play. I brought it out at the meet ign of the game guys...

All the rules went well. The characters felt good.

But it didn't 'work' for us. WHy, oh why???

After thinking it over, giving it time and re-thinking and comparing notes, we came to this conclusion (now this is just us, not meant to say everyone has the same feeling):

When drawing the cards for the Dangers, it produced a very incoherent story. You could get a zeppelin, then a nightclub brawl, then a car chase, then a temple trap (ok...)....or it could be a nightclub brawl, then a car chase and then mob trap (in the antartic)...or it could be a temple trap then a submarine then a mountain cave (in the heartland of the USA).

It made it very hard (or humoursly impossible) to 'feel' like you had an linear adventure from a beginning, middle to end in the location...it felt more like card-flipping after awhile.

There was 100% agreement on that. Everything else was impressive and fun....but the order of the Dangers.

Am I doing this wrong? Are there any ideas? A 'fix' in the works? I want to see this game come out on top, but...

Now I went over to BGG and got this note from a Roy Stephens:
"The "nightclub in the jungle" complaint is one that has come up a lot and I think that is a result of the complainer not having read the rules thoroughly (which is a necessity as MY complaint about the game is how disjointed the rule book is). If the rule book had been read thoroughly, one would have seen the part where they describe a character at an artifact location as "going on an adventure" even to the point of naming it something like "Alexander Cartwright and the Skull of Hades" or whatever. At this point is where the actual "movie" would begin. Just like Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom, which starts with a fracas in a nightclub, then to an airplane with no parachutes, then a raging river, a jungle full of vampire bats, Pankot Palace with its gross out dinner, an assassin in the night, a hallway full of bugs, human sacrifice, a foiled theft of the Sankara stones, a captured ally, fights with thugs, mine car chase, more fights, a flooded tunnel, a perilous bridge, and a fight with the villain while literally cliffhanging. You have to visualize every artifact hunt as a different pulp movie. Not everything is literally happening in the Amazon Jungle."


That could be a solution except for the fact that the rest of the game is all about travel (movement rules, cards flipped, etc.)....I wonder of there is a way to better enhance simulation of this suggestion...actually moving the character about? Hmmm..

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02-15-2013, 06:52 PM
Post: #2
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
It's funny because this discussion has been made a few time during our gaming experience, i.e. "How is a Yeti in the middle of the Serengeti?"

One thought I had is to assign each danger terrain icons based on the context of the danger. If the context could be at any terrain type leave it as is. Place the dangers in piles based on terrain icons. Water Pile, Ice pile, Mountain pile, etc. As the player moved through each location on the move phase they collect an associated danger/terrain icon token (non-existant with delivered game)for each terrain type passed through Once arrived at the location of the artifact, they player would trade in the tokens for dangers based on the dangers amount listed on the adventure card. If there are more tokens than dangers, player's choice on which to keep. If there are more, they player must grab extra danger cards based on the location of the artifact.

The only problem I see is the locations without terrain markers (the Stepps, the Heartland, etc) You would have to assign each location with a terrain type.

It seems like a lot of prep work for each game, but if you are looking for plausibility of danger/location happenstance then it might do.
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02-15-2013, 07:29 PM
Post: #3
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
When my group's (rarely!) mentioned the possible irritations, I bring up firstly the same info as you quoted from that guy in BGG, but also that it's Pulp. In Pulp, there could very well be a tropical island just off the coast of Antarctica. And in Pulp, there really are nightclubs *everywhere*. In Pulp, there really is an ancient Ice Cave buried DEEP underneath the desert.
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02-16-2013, 06:12 PM
Post: #4
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
(02-15-2013 07:29 PM)mqstout Wrote:  ... In Pulp, there could very well be a tropical island just off the coast of Antarctica. And in Pulp, there really are nightclubs *everywhere*...

I, personally, see nothing at all wrong with the 'jumping dangers' routine.

After reading the many complaints on this very subject, I began to question my own definition of 'Pulp Adventures'. I am glad to hear that there are others who share the same opinion.

I like this game a lot, but I do kind of feel that some bit of 'oompf' is missing. I am not even sure what that oompf is, but everything about this game is epic; components, presentation, and price tag. The problem is that the game doesn't necessarily feel epic.

The dangers mechanic, though, is great. There aren't too many games where I can be left at a cliffhanger about to do battle with a Giant Squid, only to see a mafia hitman swim by and bump me off with a spear gun.
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02-16-2013, 08:49 PM
Post: #5
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
We usually try to just modify the wording to make the Danger fit
the location or simply draw a new Danger that fits.

OD

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05-14-2013, 08:53 PM
Post: #6
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
We were playing last night and we kinda felt the way you did Pfr_Fate, but then we started thinking.

Ok so you disarm a trap, then have to go to a nightclub, well what if the treasure was gone when you got into the temple or whereever and now you have to track it down.
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05-20-2013, 11:40 PM
Post: #7
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
...just thinking as i type this...what if you removed the character to an adventure board thing. At the end...youd put them back..probably in the same place...but not necassarily. The actual adventure occurs all over. The time discrepency in travel relates to the 'fact ' that in between adventures is a more casual style of travel (i.e. a wandering life)

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05-21-2013, 04:56 PM
Post: #8
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
(05-20-2013 11:40 PM)Pfr_Fate Wrote:  ...just thinking as i type this...what if you removed the character to an adventure board thing. At the end...youd put them back..probably in the same place...but not necassarily. The actual adventure occurs all over. The time discrepency in travel relates to the 'fact ' that in between adventures is a more casual style of travel (i.e. a wandering life)

OK...how's this for a start...PLEASE let me know what you all think!

----------MOVING ADVENTURES----------

This rule option adds a sense of globe-trotting to the actual adventure and dangers that occur. The Artifact/Temple will move slightly as the characters chase down leads and adventure across the board. This should (partly) 'fix' some players' problems with submarines, nightclubs, artic climbs and deep sea diving all occuring in one location not particularly known for those type of events. Of course, one can still get the occasional deep sea diving in the sahara, but now it is easier to explain as potentially being on the 'way' to the sahara.




Page 11. SETTING UP. Draw and Place Starting Artifacts:

Replace: "Then draw a Location card to randomly determine where the Artifact is located." with "Then draw a Location card using the City section of the card to randomly determine where the Adventure begins."




Page 13. THE ADVENTURE PHASE. Artifact Adventures :

Add after the first sentence: "Remove your character from the board and place it on the Artifact card to represent you are 'on' that adventure."




Page 13. THE ADVENTURE PHASE. Artifact Adventures. Dangers:

Add to the bottom of this sub-section: "Because this is a journey of adventure, the space of the Artifact Token will move as the adventure progresses. The Artifact Token will always begin at a City, as the hero or villain first learns of the adventure.
"After the first Danger Token is awarded from that Artifact (no matter who earns it - villain or hero), draw a Location Card for a random space. The adventure has shifted to a new location! Any characters 'on' the adventure are now considered to be there and the Artifact Token is moved there as well and it is now there that a character must go to join this adventure.
"If the Artifact requires only 2 Dangers, then this is the final location of the Artifact. If the Artifact requires 3 or more Dangers, then the process is repeated a second time when a new Danger Token is earned (again, it does not matter by whom). Again the Artifact Token moves and the characters are considered to move along with it. This will be the final location of any Artifact requiring 3 or more Dangers."



Page 18. DEEP JUNGLE. Bonus Fortune.

Add to this sub-section: "This fortune is only added to an Artifact or Temple that has a Final Location of Deep Jungle."




Page 19. TEMPLES.

Add this new sub-section:
"Moving Adventures and Temples
Temples work similarily to other Artifacts, regarding moving adventures. The first location card drawn is for a City, to begin the adventure...but it is NOT where the Temple is located. Following the rules on Page 13, the adventure shifts to one or two locations to determine where the Temple is located. Only when the Temple is located will characters begin to earn Fortune from the Temple Card and place Instability Markers. To compensate for the added adventure and risk, the Temple Treasure has a Fortune Value of 3 plus the numer of dangers that were overcome to find the Temple (1 or 2)."

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05-26-2013, 03:12 PM
Post: #9
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
While I still don't believe this is a necessary endeavor, I will give you some feedback ignoring that.

* Why move the adventure start to a city? City spaces already have a lot going on for them. This change REALLY makes country spaces nothing but dead in-betweens with no reason to visit them short of low but non-1 movement rolls. (Can/do you still encounter the city where the adventure starts per your rules?)
* This greatly alters the competitive game. Players joining the adventure without having to catch up isn't so hot in my books. This can lead to one player doing all the leg work, then another just coming in at the last minute to claim the artifact.
* This very much weakens the event cards that rely on terrain icons (volcano, et cetera).
* What if you're on a cliffhanger and the adventure location moves?
* Deep jungle searching appears to have been removed, but the reward is still there. (And if it's still done: what if the adventure location moves while you're still searching?)
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05-27-2013, 10:45 PM
Post: #10
RE: De-randomizng the adventures
* Why move the adventure start to a city? City spaces already have a lot going on for them. This change REALLY makes country spaces nothing but dead in-betweens with no reason to visit them short of low but non-1 movement rolls. (Can/do you still encounter the city where the adventure starts per your rules?)

(Just that most adventures are uncovered in a city....the temple/final location is elsewhere, but the first clues are in Boston, Moscow, New York, Shng-Hai, etc... As to making country spaces into dead zones, well...the characters still have to travel from one city to the next or back from the final location or to catch up on a adventure's second location...so there's still a lot of travel in-between cities)


* This greatly alters the competitive game. Players joining the adventure without having to catch up isn't so hot in my books. This can lead to one player doing all the leg work, then another just coming in at the last minute to claim the artifact.

(There is no alteration in the game, except the 'catch-up' heroes must travel to the second or later locations. They still must do dangers as per the rules.)


* This very much weakens the event cards that rely on terrain icons (volcano, et cetera).

(ummm...the characters are still in various locations as the path of the adventure runs from city to final location. I think the math actually increases the probability.)

* What if you're on a cliffhanger and the adventure location moves?

(Good one! Hmmm... First thought: you move, too, with the adventure. If you suceed, you cuaght up. if you fail, you ended up in the new spot)

* Deep jungle searching appears to have been removed, but the reward is still there. (And if it's still done: what if the adventure location moves while you're still searching?)

(Another good point!...Off the top of my head: the only time the added difficulty of searching would apply is if someone is trying to catch up to an adventure that currently resides in the Deep Jungle.)

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