Definition of Defeating an Enemy and Villians Healing

[vikinglad]

I got FANG for christmas, and just got a chance to play a co-op game with the wifey against the mobsters. We had a few questions I wanted to ask y'all.

1. When raiding an oupost, you roll to see how many henchmen find you, then you have to either fight or pass an escape test against any that find you. On the outpost card, it says that the outpost is destroyed if all henchmen that found you are defeated. Does passing an escape test against them count as defeating them, or must they be dealt all wounds in a fight?

2. Same question, but for getting an artifact. The ...of the Dead adventure says you must defeat zombies after overcoming all dangers. Does passing the escape test (running from the zombies with the artifact in hand) count as defeating them, or must they be dealt all wounds in a fight? I know you don't get the Glory unless you beat them in a fight.

3. Do villians ever heal? It seems like they should sometime, but I can't find it anywhere. I think maybe they only heal after being KO'd?

Thanks for the help, guys. Gonna play a game with more people New Year's Eve. Maybe we will do the Nazis this time. I hope expansions are for more vile organizations. I would love a guild of evil scientists, with a huge robot HQ similar to the zepplin, and a robot army for henchmen.

[munkymuddface]

These are my thoughts/experiences on each of your points, for right or wrong... I hope they help.

1. Escaping from a Fight does not count as defeating. Think of it this way: When rolling your sneak dice, every die you roll is a potential henchman that you would need to fight. So every one that doesn't find you, you have successfully passively defeated. For those that do find you, you need to actively defeat. So they found you and you proceed to fighting, you are getting your butt kicked and need to Escape; aka the henchmen did their job and ran you off and successfully defended the hideout/outpost.

2. Again, escaping does not count as defeating. If you escape the zombies, they proved to be too tough this time around, and you had to retreat to higher ground. Since escaping does not necessarily mean that your turn is over, you can choose to Camp Down to heal up for another run at it next turn. Since you keep all your successes towards retrieving the Artifact, next turn, you would go straight to Fighting Zombies (or whatever the Enemy may be...).

3. This is something that I question as well... I play that they definitely heal when they are KO'd. Balance wise, it might make sense to not have them heal. They are often very hard to KO with no healing. I was thinking that maybe it would make sense to have them heal whenever they were removed from the board, but there is a subtle rule that counters this: Temple Collapse. When a Villain is at a Temple that collapses, they take D6 wounds and are removed from the board. Why deal the wounds if they would just heal right away?

I think this is a bit of a fuzzy rule that is a little bit open to interpretation. Starting out, may want to have them not heal. But if you are winning every game and it is not even close, then try having them heal every time they are removed from the board to to see if that makes it a bit more challenging.

[Pred]

munkymuddface wrote
1. Escaping from a Fight does not count as defeating. Think of it this way: When rolling your sneak dice, every die you roll is a potential henchman that you would need to fight. So every one that doesn't find you, you have successfully passively defeated. For those that do find you, you need to actively defeat. So they found you and you proceed to fighting, you are getting your butt kicked and need to Escape; aka the henchmen did their job and ran you off and successfully defended the hideout/outpost.

I agree with this but keep in mind if you are discovered by lets say
2 bad guys you may escape one fight (of course you dont get glory)
and fight the second one. It states on the card (outpost card)...
If the Hero successfully Sneaks through and/or defeats ANY Mobsters
that discover them, the Mob HQ or Hideout is destroyed and the Hero
gains the bonus for destroying an Outpost as normal.
so you only really haft to defeat 1 out of how ever many find you
to collect your fortune, artifact, or allies you are saving.

Also keep in mind that after you escape one fight and you have more,
you have the choice to escape the whole shebang by escaping for free,
but! ONLY after you successfully defeat or escape 1 bad guy already,
AND in between fights.

2. I would agree with Munky again saying the Zombie is the protector
of the Artifact and you would have to defeat him.

3. Villain's only heal when KO'ed, I never find it too easy to defeat
them.

[zombie67]

Pred, you seem to be saying in your example, that if you defeat one of the henchmen and Escape the other you destroy the Outpost. Sorry but don't agree Escape and Sneaking are not the same things, if you fail to Sneak by any Hecnhmen you must then defeat them. If you Escape them you run away and the Outpost is not destroyed as MMF said.

Apart from that I agree with what the others say about the points VL raised.

I actually came on here and BGG just now as we had the same question just arise about Villains healing and the overall consensus is that they only heal when KO'd.

[zombie67]

Just re-reading your post, Pred, and maybe I got the wrong end of the stick with your meaning, though I still disagree with your reading of the situation.

The word ANY on the Outpost card means if any Henchmen discover you, you must defeat them to destroy the Outpost.

It doesn't mean that if you defeat any of the Henchmen who discover you, you destroy the Outpost.

So if you are discovered by 3 Henchmen you must defeat all 3 of them to destroy the Outpost.

[munkymuddface]

(01-02-2012 02:32 AM)zombie67 Wrote:  Just re-reading your post, Pred, and maybe I got the wrong end of the stick with your meaning, though I still disagree with your reading of the situation.

The word ANY on the Outpost card means if any Henchmen discover you, you must defeat them to destroy the Outpost.

It doesn't mean that if you defeat any of the Henchmen who discover you, you destroy the Outpost.

So if you are discovered by 3 Henchmen you must defeat all 3 of them to destroy the Outpost.

I agree completely with all of this.

[Pred]

well it doesnt say that though, and it is equally hard in some cases
depending on the character to escape as it is to fight. On the Out
post card is says if ANY henchman is defeated the outpost is defeated.
So if I was discovered 3x I can escape the first 2 and fight last. Escape
is just like fighting because if I fail the escape then I am still getting
beat on just like in a fight, except escaping gives no glory.This is a
game based on a movie genre so take this into consideration.

The Rocketeer is infiltrating a secret base to destroy it. Along the
way his is discovered by 3 henchman. Knowing he is out numbered
he dodges around corners missing the gunfire being sprayed at him
until he ditches them. He makes it to the control room but one the
henchmen was smart enough to go back to guard. The only thing
standing in the Rocketeers way of destroying the Outpost and
collecting a bit of loot is this one henchman. The Rocketeer manages
to daringly defeat this thug, plants his bomb takes his loot, save some
ally, and Flys outa there just as the bomb explodes.

You guys might be right, but I'm just playing it how I read it, as long
as you, and quote "If the Hero successfully Sneaks through and/or
defeats ANY Mobsters that discover them, the Mob HQ or Hideout is
destroyed and the Hero gains the bonus for destroying an Outpost
as normal." That's how I play it but if you find a faq or thread that
disproves how I play please post because I like to play correctly,
and I don't see anything wrong with the way we do it.

[zombie67]

Just in case I was mistaken I grabbed the Outpost cards for both the Mob and Nazis along with the War Zeppelin as it is treated as an outpost.

In the case of the Mob Outpost it says:



I agree that there could be some confusion in the way it states ANY Mobsters but if FFP meant that you only have to defeat one or some of the Mobsters who find you they would have said ANY OF THE MOBSTERS not ANY MOBSTERS.

I also think that as it gives you the chance to Escape for free between fights means that FFP treat Escaping as running away from the base not running further in to your goal. This also takes out the hard part of Escaping you mention Pred, as you don't have to roll to Escape between fights. So if we play it the way you read ti all you have to do if defeat one Mobster then take the free Escape option for any other fights and we have destroyed the Outpost. Doesn't seem right to me.


The War Zeppelin works the same as the Mob Out post:



but here it clearly states ALL Nazi Soldiers as opposed to ANY, so maybe that adds to the confusion.



Over to Jason or ANY (see what I did there) FFP Henchmen to give the final answer.



Oh and just to complete there trio here is the Nazi Outpost rules:

[vikinglad]

I think the reason I thought you could even escape every nazi that discovered you is that it says you can sneak past or defeat any guards that discover you. Only dice that fail the initial sneak test are guards that discovered you. Why would it say you could sneak past them after being discovered? I assumed this meant escape tests.

[munkymuddface]

(01-02-2012 08:08 PM)zombie67 Wrote:  Oh and just to complete there trio here is the Nazi Outpost rules:

That sure looks like the Mob Outost rather than the Nazi one :P