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StayPuft · 07-01-2013, 02:03 AM

Again, I have not yet had a chance to re-read through the rulebook, so I apologize if this was answered there and I may have just missed it. As we all know, if an elder is "killed" during the course of the game (other than as result of a showdown with the villain) they are not removed from the game, but are simply turned a different direction to differentiate them from the Elders who are still alive.

This is because a "dead" Elder could turn out to secretly be an Evil Elder, thereby having faked their death and joining the villain. However, what I wasn't sure of... when the very first showdown begins after the Elder "died," do they get revealed instantly since they were "dead," or would they only be revealed if somebody accused them? In other words, it could be that, thematically, that hero didn't believe that they were really dead and believed that they were evil all along.

MoonSylver · 07-01-2013, 04:39 AM

(07-01-2013 02:03 AM)StayPuft Wrote: Again, I have not yet had a chance to re-read through the rulebook, so I apologize if this was answered there and I may have just missed it. As we all know, if an elder is "killed" during the course of the game (other than as result of a showdown with the villain) they are not removed from the game, but are simply turned a different direction to differentiate them from the Elders who are still alive.

This is because a "dead" Elder could turn out to secretly be an Evil Elder, thereby having faked their death and joining the villain. However, what I wasn't sure of... when the very first showdown begins after the Elder "died," do they get revealed instantly since they were "dead," or would they only be revealed if somebody accused them? In other words, it could be that, thematically, that hero didn't believe that they were really dead and believed that they were evil all along.

In Competitive, they only get revealed if Accused. In Co-Op/Solo they get revealed when the Elder is killed (although I & others play the House Rule that you Reveal all dead Elders Secrets when the Showdown begins: more thematic that way Watchmen02

)

P.15

Quote:When a Town Elder is killed, turn their card sideways to show this. That Elder keeps their Secrets and can still be investigated, but may no longer join a Hunting Party (as they are dead). The reason that they keep their Secrets is that if they turn out to be evil, it is assumed that they faked their own death and still join the Villain.

and Pg.20

Quote:When a Town Elder is killed, move the Shadow
Track as normal and then reveal all of that Elder’s
Secrets. Any Keyword Evil Secrets they have immediately take affect, turning them into an Evil Elder instead

---MS

Achtung Panzer · 07-01-2013, 12:38 PM

(07-01-2013 04:39 AM)MoonSylver Wrote:
(07-01-2013 02:03 AM)StayPuft Wrote: Again, I have not yet had a chance to re-read through the rulebook, so I apologize if this was answered there and I may have just missed it. As we all know, if an elder is "killed" during the course of the game (other than as result of a showdown with the villain) they are not removed from the game, but are simply turned a different direction to differentiate them from the Elders who are still alive.

This is because a "dead" Elder could turn out to secretly be an Evil Elder, thereby having faked their death and joining the villain. However, what I wasn't sure of... when the very first showdown begins after the Elder "died," do they get revealed instantly since they were "dead," or would they only be revealed if somebody accused them? In other words, it could be that, thematically, that hero didn't believe that they were really dead and believed that they were evil all along.

In Competitive, they only get revealed if Accused. In Co-Op/Solo they get revealed when the Elder is killed (although I & others play the House Rule that you Reveal all dead Elders Secrets when the Showdown begins: more thematic that way )

P.15

Quote:When a Town Elder is killed, turn their card sideways to show this. That Elder keeps their Secrets and can still be investigated, but may no longer join a Hunting Party (as they are dead). The reason that they keep their Secrets is that if they turn out to be evil, it is assumed that they faked their own death and still join the Villain.

and Pg.20

Quote:When a Town Elder is killed, move the Shadow
Track as normal and then reveal all of that Elder’s
Secrets. Any Keyword Evil Secrets they have immediately take affect, turning them into an Evil Elder instead
---MS

"Any Keyword Evil Secrets they have immediately take affect, turning them into an Evil Elder instead" - so in this case you do not move the tracker as that only happens for killed elders?

MoonSylver · 07-02-2013, 01:51 AM

Quote:"Any Keyword Evil Secrets they have immediately take affect, turning them into an Evil Elder instead" - so in this case you do not move the tracker as that only happens for killed elders?

Correct. Accused/Revealed Elders who turn Evil do NOT Advance the Shadow Track, only dead ones. HOWEVER: Ones who are "killed" only to be revealed as Evil, having "faked their death" & joining the Villain DO advance the Track when they are "killed". Zombie03

---MS

StayPuft · 07-02-2013, 04:14 AM

Once again, thank you to you all. Very helpful.

Achtung Panzer · 07-02-2013, 07:32 AM

(07-02-2013 01:51 AM)MoonSylver Wrote:
Quote:"Any Keyword Evil Secrets they have immediately take affect, turning them into an Evil Elder instead" - so in this case you do not move the tracker as that only happens for killed elders?

Correct. Accused/Revealed Elders who turn Evil do NOT Advance the Shadow Track, only dead ones. HOWEVER: Ones who are "killed" only to be revealed as Evil, having "faked their death" & joining the Villain DO advance the Track when they are "killed".
---MS

And this applies only in the Competitive version.

MoonSylver · 07-03-2013, 01:02 AM

(07-02-2013 07:32 AM)Achtung Panzer Wrote:
(07-02-2013 01:51 AM)MoonSylver Wrote:
Quote:"Any Keyword Evil Secrets they have immediately take affect, turning them into an Evil Elder instead" - so in this case you do not move the tracker as that only happens for killed elders?

Correct. Accused/Revealed Elders who turn Evil do NOT Advance the Shadow Track, only dead ones. HOWEVER: Ones who are "killed" only to be revealed as Evil, having "faked their death" & joining the Villain DO advance the Track when they are "killed".
---MS

And this applies only in the Competitive version.

No, any Elder killed advances the Shadow Track. Unless I missed something...?

ATOEtalGeek · 07-03-2013, 02:30 AM

(07-02-2013 07:32 AM)Achtung Panzer Wrote: ...And this applies only in the Competitive version.

This doesn't make sense to me. The shadow track moves on the death of a town elder in competitve and co-op.

Achtung Panzer · 07-03-2013, 01:35 PM

(07-03-2013 02:30 AM)ATOEtalGeek Wrote:
(07-02-2013 07:32 AM)Achtung Panzer Wrote: ...And this applies only in the Competitive version.

This doesn't make sense to me. The shadow track moves on the death of a town elder in competitve and co-op.

What I'm getting at is that if the Town Elder is revealed as Evil and faked his death - he isn't dead / killed and therefore the Shadow Track doesn't move. The Town Elder still lives.

MoonSylver · (This post was last modified: 07-03-2013 07:12 PM by MoonSylver.)

(07-03-2013 01:35 PM)Achtung Panzer Wrote:
(07-03-2013 02:30 AM)ATOEtalGeek Wrote:
(07-02-2013 07:32 AM)Achtung Panzer Wrote: ...And this applies only in the Competitive version.

This doesn't make sense to me. The shadow track moves on the death of a town elder in competitve and co-op.

What I'm getting at is that if the Town Elder is revealed as Evil and faked his death - he isn't dead / killed and therefore the Shadow Track doesn't move. The Town Elder still lives.

Yes, but the Shadow Track still moves because the Elder was "killed". Zombie04

Besides he's no longer a Town Elder, he's an EVIL Elder now. Watchmen02

Honestly, it makes more sense to me the way I play it, where you don't reveal dead Elder's secrets until the showdown. Zombie03

Thematically, think of it this way: just because the Hero knows the Elder faked his death & has joined the Villain, doesn't mean the TOWN does. As far as they know, the Reverend Harding is dead.OR, let's say they DO know: the Towfolk are still shocked & horrified, & the cause of Evil is still advanced (the Shadow Track still advances).

Bottom line though, ANY time an Elder is killed, the Shadow Track moves. Watchmen02