Game Report: Custom Scenario in progress

[thanatos]

Sorry my replies are so slow - I've been in meetings for a couple of days at work, and have gotten home so late the past two nights that I've just rolled into bed.

The scenario isn't really based off of Saw, the quote in the game report was just a small homage. The player who came up with the idea was basing it more off of a loose adaptation of Manhunt. The idea is fleshing out more to be that Victor, and possibly Jake, used a lull in the action to drug the other heroes and separate them, blocking themselves off in the middle of town to try to make off with what they assume is a fortune (LNOE backstory seems to indicate that Woodinvale has occasional zombie outbreaks that don't necessarily affect the rest of the world, which is why, despite the zombie apocalypse, the small-minded crook is trying to get paid).

The more I think about it, the more I think Victor cracking the safe should be based on a single skill-check, possibly two or three (we will play test trying to crack the safe a few times). After all, one of his skills is "Lock Pick," so he wouldn't just be guessing the combination - he'd be approaching the safe like a pro. With a single skill check, he needs to roll a 6. With two or three skill checks, he needs to successfully roll a 5 or a 6 each time.

The point of blowing the safe is the same reason any crook would blow a safe - expedience. You take a loss on your profits in exchange for getting out faster. I do, however, like Nitro's idea of the safe actually having a book of the dead or some such inside, with penalties for lower demolitions skill checks. If Jake is used as well, then Jake, knowing more about the previous outbreak (per flavor text from the LNOE rulebook), has lured Victor into helping him with the promise of a fantastic "treasure," which is actually the book. In this situation, the "villain" player controls both Jake and Victor. Since Victor is the criminal with lock picking and, presumably, safe-cracking experience, only Victor may search or attempt to crack the safe, while Jake can try to reinforce barricades as they are damaged using standard barricade rules (once we release the final scenario, I will include barricade rules for those who do not have Survival of the Fittest).

Not allowing Jake to search is, once again, intentional - his hero ability would give the villains an unfair advantage in trying to mill for the dynamite.

So keep in mind, Victor is not so much trying to torture or pit the other heroes against one another as he is trying to divide, conquer, and then slip out in the confusion.

We have revised the safe now so that, if dynamite is used, the following rules apply based on the demolitions roll:
5 or 6 leaves the contents unscathed - the book of the dead and money (after all, Jake knows that if there is no money at all, Victor would probably break his neck). Whoever holds the book is "invisible" to the zombies, which makes escape much easier for one person (if Jake is also used, however, he still has to get through whatever zombies are in the way)
3 or 4 destroys the money and damages the book, meaning the villains must simply escape with the book.
1 or 2 destroys everything in the safe. The destruction of the book instantly places a zombie in every square of the manor house. If there are not enough zombies in the zombie pool, remove them from elsewhere on the board, STARTING with zombies in the same space as heroes.

For the demolition roll of 1 or 2, If Jake is being used and both Victor and Jake survive the zombie attack, they must battle each other to the death before being allowed to leave the manor house (Jake is mad at Victor for bungling the safe crack, Victor is mad at Jake for making him risk his neck for a stupid book that is now so damaged as to be worthless). For these fights ONLY, doubles are not required to wound the other villain - high roll wounds, ties do nothing. If Jake and Victor are in the same space when zombies attack, they must fight each other, in addition to the zombies, each time they fight zombies.

[Pred]

The balance of the way you describe it just doesn't seem fair nor that much fun in the way you describe it.
Being Victor team is just seems almost nearly impossible to win with odds of 1/20
Being heroes and being teamed 8 full heroes seem odds of winning 1/2
Being Zombies odds of winning 1/10
I like the story base behind it but the endgame picture i'm not sure on
Me personally I like playing a game that odds of winning are close to fair for everyone playing, but I like a challenge
(example: Your setup is like Ninja Gaiden, (way too hard nearly impossible to beat) needs a tone down like Ninja Gaiden Black)
But I know your just in test phase so I look forward to the next update with your game too see how you develop

[thanatos]

Yeah, everything is still very much subject to change. Using these rules, but with Team Victor playable from the beginning, Team Victor very nearly pulled off the win last night. Three different heroes managed to get off three perfect shots as he was running and took him out, but Victor was 3 steps from the Road Out of Town with book and money in hand.

I want the safe to be difficult to crack because I prefer to force the dynamite to come into play - it creates a little more flavor...especially if the heroes are rushing into the manor house and a 1 gets rolled on the safe explosion .

Keep in mind, too, that even though Team Victor CAN be played by another player, it can also be played by the zombie player as an ambivalent third-party force.

I am thinking of switching things up to allow Jake to search, as well, rather than just reinforcing the walls, if only because, with no weapons, he didn't stand a chance once Victor got taken out last night.

[nitro9090]

I think you still need to look into a lot of balancing for such a complicated setup for instance the victor situation, the safe crack timing and the danger of blowing up the safe. It should definitely take at least 3 turns on a lucky string of rolls to crack the safe normally, seeing as the other heroes have to find some items and batter their way into the building which sounds it will take atleast 5 or 6 turns, if not more depending on luck.

Also, I propose you give victor the dynamite from the beginning (he has been planning this event at least somewhat) and it will be his last resort when cracking the safe (make the odds for bad outcomes a little stricter), for instance when heroes break in, he can immediately try to blow the safe and thus he either retrieves the goods or zombies come out of the floor causing confusion which can help him escape from the group of heroes barrelling in on him. Otherwise, If victor succeeds with the crack (without using the dynamite) he can blow up the manor house along with the barricades, thus making it harder for the 2 sides of town to meet up (or not possible at all) and give him a decent chance at escape.

Another point of contention, is the heroes just sitting around powering up with guns and weapons waiting for victor to crack the safe, then when he makes a break for it they slaughter him. With 14 zombies spread across 2 board sides against 8-9 heroes, the zombie player will have a very rough time.

[thanatos]

Having the dynamite from the beginning and usable only if the heroes and/or zombies break in is a good idea. I don't think I want to make it possible to block off both sides of the board by blowing up the manor house, though, because, if the heroes on the Road out of Town side still managed to stop Victor, the game would default to a zombie victory, since no heroes from the opposite side could escape. Perhaps blowing up the manor house could break a mystical seal, causing zombies to flood in to the non-manor house spaces in the center board piece (or maybe just flip the center board piece to the larger squared side and filling each square with the remaining zombies in the pool). Since Victor would have the book at that point, the zombies would not aggro on him or stop him when he shared a space with them.

In our experience thus far, the heroes have not really been sitting around powering up - they have certainly searched somewhat, but the HEROES are currently the ones who have to break the barricades - as far as Victor knows, there is no way for zombies to get to the manor house, so he has barricaded himself in solidly, planning to escape only if things go south, and then only with the loot.

Victor could possibly be allowed to use the dynamite to EITHER blow up the manor house OR a barricade, if the heroes spend too long just stocking up, but I think instead I would simply make the game default to a victory for Victor if the heroes never break down the barricades.

Also, there aren't 14 zombies. We set it up for 21 zombies (zombie horde), but no autospawn until a barrier has been broken.

[nitro9090]

(09-22-2011 02:38 PM)thanatos Wrote:  Having the dynamite from the beginning and usable only if the heroes and/or zombies break in is a good idea. I don't think I want to make it possible to block off both sides of the board by blowing up the manor house, though, because, if the heroes on the Road out of Town side still managed to stop Victor, the game would default to a zombie victory, since no heroes from the opposite side could escape. Perhaps blowing up the manor house could break a mystical seal, causing zombies to flood in to the non-manor house spaces in the center board piece (or maybe just flip the center board piece to the larger squared side and filling each square with the remaining zombies in the pool). Since Victor would have the book at that point, the zombies would not aggro on him or stop him when he shared a space with them.

It is a town, it isn't like there really would only be 1 way in and out. I just figure it would make things harder for the heroes and easier for victor if he can crack the safe and split the town in 2.

Quote:In our experience thus far, the heroes have not really been sitting around powering up - they have certainly searched somewhat, but the HEROES are currently the ones who have to break the barricades - as far as Victor knows, there is no way for zombies to get to the manor house, so he has barricaded himself in solidly, planning to escape only if things go south, and then only with the loot.

Victor could possibly be allowed to use the dynamite to EITHER blow up the manor house OR a barricade, if the heroes spend too long just stocking up, but I think instead I would simply make the game default to a victory for Victor if the heroes never break down the barricades.

Also, there aren't 14 zombies. We set it up for 21 zombies (zombie horde), but no autospawn until a barrier has been broken.

Sorry, I haven't committed every detail to memory.

I don't mean to back track, but thinking about this scenario why split the town in 2 to begin with? This entire setup seems like it would work just as well if there was only 1 side to the town. Also, shouldn't victor have a better escape plan than make a run for it through the center of town.

I feel bad about trying to change the scenario so much, but this scenario sounds better if the town was evacuated and a team of heroes return to recover the book of the dead, but they find Victor has holed himself up in the manor, without the knowledge of the book. But, the heroes foolishly chat with him through a megaphone system at which points he learns about the book of the dead, so victor quickly tries to find it in the house, recover it and escape, while the heroes rush to stop him from escaping with the book. This would also add the mechanic that victor needs to find the safe and then begin to crack it.

[thanatos]

The game is really what makes that "only one exit" scenario, though - there's only one "road out of town," after all, and that also encourages the heroes to get moving, since half of them have been barricaded off from escape (for story purposes, one could always assume that Woodinvale is either in a deep forest or up against a mountain, meaning there is only one safe way out of town).

For story purposes, since the house contains the book of the dead, placing it in the center of town would make the most sense, as it would then be presumed to be the most "secure", which is how barricading off either side blocks off the two sides of town. This could also be presumed to be city hall or something.

I think I may require the hero team to have Sheriff Anderson on one of the two teams. He made sure to bring Victor with him rather than leave him to the mercy of the zombies, then Victor overheard the Sheriff and someone else speaking about the vault, and then used an opportunity to drug the heroes and split them up. Basically, he is just being opportunistic, taking advantage of a drop in the heroes' guard as they tried to plan their escape from Woodinvale, to claim what he believes is some priceless treasure.

On that same story note, I don't think Victor would care about the book if he knew it was just a book - he's in this for the money, because he still believes (whether rightly or wrongly) that money is going to be important outside of Woodinvale. His escape plan is one that banks on the heroes caring enough about each other to try to save each other BEFORE going after him, which is why, rule-wise, both barricades have to come down before the heroes can start trying to get into the manor house.

[nitro9090]

Ok, if there is only 1 exit, then what will stop the heroes from only destroying the barricade on the side with no exits, thus trapping victor in the town and forcing him to face the zombie onslaught and 4 heroes all alone (or with johnny)?

[thanatos]

The heroes cannot start attacking the manor house until they have regrouped. Story-wise, this is because their first priority is to make sure everyone is safe (thus, too, the win condition that requires at least one member from each hero team be in the escaping group).

[nitro9090]

So, they can't break into the manor until all of the heroes meet up? They just walk around it, meet up and then take on Victor?