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Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
03-30-2009, 06:09 PM
Post: #11
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
Further to my above post.

When Fran says "what have we done to ourselves?", she seems to be saying they are trapped together in a prison of their own making. They very next scene is where they are loading up the chopper and Fran is learning to fly it.

This above idea of a Mall, even with all its goods, would still end up feeling like a prison led me to start a thread on Ken's site regarding the differences between 1978 and now.

So I will post the same question here and see what you folks think:

The protagonists start to get on each others nerves in the film, as they are stuck in the mall with not a lot to do and can't leave. Fran even refers to it as a prison.

Now, if the events of Dawn happened now, I dunno about you folks but I think I could cope quite well being stuck in a Mall, what with DVD's , Xbox360's, Wii's & PS3's, books & computers. Maybe its just me, I am homebody, most of my interests are home-based, that's probably why I am the fine figure of a man sitting here!

So over to you guys & gals....do you think you could cope stuck in there or would you go stir crazy??
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03-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Post: #12
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
I am the very definition of a home body as well, and have always thought (even before I knew what Dawn of the Dead was) that living in a mall would be the ultimate in cool. Food, drinks, books, clothes, TVs, etc. etc....It's got everything a modern person would need to survive.

However realistically, it would absolutely turn into a prison. Also, the saying of "Familiarity breeds contempt" couldn't be more true than in an occasion like that.

BUT, and not to turn your conversation to the more esoteric....BUT...I feel that is the point Romero is maybe trying to make. The prison isn't the confines of the walls....it's us trapped with our goodies. We build our own prisons by constantly worshiping the almighty consumer goods. We isolate ourselves from the ugly world by building our own fake walls. On another level, we are also the zombies...the mindless creatures attracted to the mall by some compelling, but never described, reason. Mindless zombies, the lot of us!
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03-30-2009, 07:17 PM
Post: #13
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
I totally agree, SV!

But as prisons go....i dunno all this talk makes me want to go shopping!! Zombie03 Zombie17

I do think though within the parameters of a zombie outbreak, boarding yourself up within a mall with all its distractions is far preferable to trying to survive in the outside world.

As the end of the 2004 Dawn showed no where is safe.

I particularly liked that ending when you remember the early scene in the 1978 Dawn with the guys loading up the boat..

"Where you guys heading?"

"We though we try to make it to the island!"

Even the island aren't safe.

And lets say there was any island completely free of infestation, wouldn't that also become an prison, in that you could never safely leave it and you could not trust any boats or ships you saw.
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03-30-2009, 08:01 PM
Post: #14
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
I'd stay in the mall... eventually... those zombies would rot... damn zombies... then the world would be mine!!! MUHAHAHAHA!!!

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03-30-2009, 08:32 PM
Post: #15
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
Personally...in a realistic setting, I'd go nowhere near the mall.

Every nutcase with a shotgun and a six pack would be heading there, or the local Wal-mart to hole up.

I'd go out to the country, and find me an isolated farmhouse with a clear view of the surrounding lands..
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03-31-2009, 01:18 AM (This post was last modified: 03-31-2009 01:32 AM by zombie67.)
Post: #16
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
Ryuk Wrote:Hi, zombie67
Got a question for you, (or anyone else). I have the Fulci movies Zombie and Zombi 2. (Also have Zombie 3,4,&5, but haven't watched them yet). I thought you made a mistake with your post describing Zombi 2 because I just watched the first one, Zombie and your description of Zombi 2 matched what I just watched. Imagine my surprise when I popped in Zombi 2 and found out that it's the same movie as Zombie. Do you know any background about what I'm talking about? The Zombi 2 movie even says, "ZOMBIE" in it's opening credits. What's up with this name change? Is Zombie 3, (also a Fulci film) really '3' or is it actually '2'?

Hi Ryuk,

The confusion stems from the different International titles. I'll try and make it clearer.

"Dawn of the Dead" (1978) was released in Italy as "Zombi", in a re-edited form from Dario Argento. The film was part funded by a deal with Dario and his brother Claudio.

Fulci then directed an unofficial sequel (prequel) which was released in Italy as "Zombi 2" (1979). This was then released in the USA in 1980 as "Zombie".

"Zombi 3" (1988) was only partly directed by Fulci as he suffered a stroke during production and had to be replaced by 2nd Unit Dircetor Bruno Mattei and Writer Claudio Fragasso. To my knowledge this film was not released in the US until the DVD release as "Zombi 3".


Just to completely confuse matters here are some of the International titles to the above films and some others in a similar vein...er, so to speak (I have mainly included English language titles in most cases):

DAWN OF THE DEAD (1978)

Zombi - Italy / Spain / Turkey
Zombie - France / West Germany
The Zombies - Philippines (English title)
Zombies: Dawn of the Dead - UK (video box title)



ZOMBI 2 (1979)

Zombie Flesh Eaters - Australia / UK
Island of the Living Dead - Europe (English title)
Woodoo - West Germany
Zombie - USA
Zombie 2: The Dead are Among Us - USA (video title)
Zombies 2 - Japan


All with me so far...now prepare to be confused:


Films known under the title ZOMBI(E) 3


ZOMBI 3 directed by Lucio Fulci, Bruno Mattei and Claudio Fragasso(1988)

Zombie 3 - Argentina (video title) / Germany (DVD title)
Zombie Flesh Eaters 2 - UK (video title)



ZOMBIE 3 directed by Andrea Bianchi (1981)

Burial Ground - USA (video title)
Burial Ground: The Nights of Terror - USA (DVD title)
The Nights of Terror - UK (complete title)
The Zombie Dead - UK (DVD title)
Zombi horror - Italy
Zombie 3 - Europe (English Title)



ZOMBIE 3 directed by Marino Girolami (1980)

Zombie Holocaust - Netherlands / UK
Doctor Butcher M.D. - USA (recut version)
Dr. Butcher, Medical Deviate - USA (video title)
Zombie 3 - USA


There is another listed Zombie 3 but as IMDB cannot define where it was known by the title I have not included it here.


Now we really start to get confusing, films known by the title ZOMBI(E) 4:


ZOMBI 4 directed by Bruno Mattei and Claudio Fragasso(1980)

Apocalipsis canĂ­bal - Spain
Hell of the Living Dead - International (English title)
Night of the Zombies - USA
Virus cannibale - France (video title)
Zombi 4 - USA (pre-release title)
Zombi 5: Ultimate Nightmare - Italy*
Zombie Creeping Flesh - UK



ZOMBI 4 directed by Claudio Fragasso(1988)

Zombi 4 - After death - Italy
Zombie 4: After Death - International (English title)
Zombie Flesh Eaters 3 - UK (DVD title)



ZOMBI 4 directed by Jesus Franco & Jean Rollin(1973)

A Virgin Among the Living Dead - USA (video box title)
Among the Living Dead - International (English title)
Christine, Princess of Eroticism - USA
Zombi 4: A Virgin Among the Living - USA (video box title)



Films know as ZOMBI(E) 5:



*See Zombi 4(1980) above.


ZOMBIE 5 directed by Claudio Lattanzi(1987)

Killing Birds - Raptors - Germany (DVD box title)
Zombie 5: Killing Birds - USA (DVD box title)



ZOMBIE 5

Zombie 5 - USA
Revenge in the House of Usher - International (English title)


There is a film listed on IMDB as ZOMBIE 6 though there is no origin listed for that title, so I haven't included it.

To my knowledge there is no ZOMBI(E) 7 or above...hmmm, a gap in the market maybe!


Hope that has cleared all that up for you Ryuk! :rolleyes: Zombie17 Zombie17
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04-10-2009, 03:53 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 03:53 AM by supervike.)
Post: #17
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
Ok....just got done watching Day of the Dead....the Romero original, not the new VERY CRAPPY remake.

I just have to say that I've always thought Romero's zombie movies as kind of a joke....I thought they were supposed to be so campy that they just became cult favorites....But now I have seen the first three, my attitude has really changed.

There are some over the top cheesy moments, some of the dialog and the acting is a bit....much..BUT, honestly, these are very well done flicks. There is more to them than just gorefests, and some of the characters are very memorable. This latest one really upped the ante for 'special effects' and grossness. But, there is still an overall message that I really 'get'.

I also find it interesting that Romero's three main protagonists in the movies (Night of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead, and Day of the Dead) are strong black males. I'm not saying anything negative about it, I just find it as an interesting point. Movies of that era rarely did that.

Anyhow, I hope someone wants to discuss this film more with me.
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04-10-2009, 10:23 AM
Post: #18
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
supervike Wrote:I also find it interesting that Romero's three main protagonists in the movies (Night of the Dead, Dawn of the Dead, and Day of the Dead) are strong black males. I'm not saying anything negative about it, I just find it as an interesting point. Movies of that era rarely did that.

The part of Ben in Night of the Living Dead was originally written as an angry truck driver, originally to be played by Rudy Ricci (he was the Biker on the CB in Dawn) but then they auditioned Duane Jones and thought he was perfect.

Everybody agreed that the character shouldn't be changed to make reference to Ben ethnicity or how it affects his ability to deal with the situation......everybody that is except Duane Jones! He felt that that it would expand his character and explain his anger throughout...he also said that he would probably be for it after he was called upon to "slug" Barbara, a white woman!

Romero said they all felt "No way, man. It isn't a problem" etc and they all felt they were (his words) "being really cool about it". Looking back he know feels that Jones was absolutely correct and it would have brought something extra to the character of Ben.

I think Romero has cast strong Black actors but the parts themselves are not necessarily written as "black". I have always liked this approach as opposed to say a director/writer like Spike Lee who has complained that black actors always play druggies, pimps or whores and then proceeds to write parts for black actors as druggies, pimps or whores.


Now, sv, you will have to watch Land of the Dead for Romero's next take on the strong black character!
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04-10-2009, 10:55 AM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2009 02:53 PM by zombie67.)
Post: #19
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
As promised here are some takes on the zombie film that are different from our beloved brain-eating shamblers:

WHITE ZOMBIE

[Image: 51RA396D3VL_SS500_.jpg]

The image above is one of many available to buy on Amazon as the film is available as a public domain film, which means anybody could legally release the film. Be careful as there are some really awful quality versions out there.

Amazon.com:

Quote:Madeleine (Madge Bellamy) arrives at midnight to witness a mysterious burial before coming face to face with the satanic looking Murder Legendre (Lugosi with goatee and searing eyes) a hypnotist and voodoo master who has been supplying the local mills with an army of zombie laborers. Madeleine's nightmare is just beginning. Having landed in a world of almost perpetual night where hollow-eyed zombies lumber through the sugar mill and the ghostly town is eerily bereft of living souls she becomes the object of desire for Legendre whose plan to possess her involves her initiation to the world of the undead.

"Murder Legendre" has to be one of the greatest horror movie names of all time and the film uses Lugosi's hypnotic stare even better than Dracula.



I WALKED WITH A ZOMBIE

[Image: 51v-4hynA3L_SS500_.jpg]

The above is a double-bill with the great Karloff vehicle The Body Snatcher. If you can afford it I really recommend the great Val Lewton Boxset, which includes the above along with films like Cat People, Bedlam, Isle of the Dead and more. A truly excellent boxset of classic horror films!

IMDB:
Quote:A young Canadian nurse (Betsy) comes to the West Indies to care for Jessica, the wife of a plantation manager (Paul Holland). Jessica seems to be suffering from a kind of mental paralysis as a result of fever. When she falls in love with Paul, Betsy determines to cure Jessica even if she needs to use a voodoo ceremony, to give Paul what she thinks he wants.

As I mentioned on another thread this is actually a take on Jane Eyre but set in the West Indies with voodoo.



THE PLAGUE OF THE ZOMBIES

[Image: 51NHGRnaSyL_SS500_.jpg]

One of the great Hammer Horror films!

IMDB:
Quote:Young workers are dying because of a mysterious epidemic in a little village in Cornwall. Doctor Thompson is helpless and asks professor James Forbes for help. The professor and his daughter Sylvia travel to Thomson. Terrible things happen soon, beyond imagination or reality. Dead people are seen near an old, unused mine. Late people seem to live suddenly. Professor Forbes presumes that black magic is involved and someone has extraordinary power. He doesn't know how close he is: the dead become alive because of a magic voodoo-ritual, and so they must serve their master as mindless zombies...

I once had the pleasure of watching this film in a cold cave in Cornwall with dripping water everywhere. Very atmospheric and rather appropriate!



DEAD & BURIED

[Image: 513DWS3NT5L_SS500_.jpg]

IMDB:
Quote:Potters Bluff, Rhode Island. may seem to be a sleepy little town. At least for the casual visitor and the local sheriff, Daniel Gillis. However, all of a sudden, there are a lot of strange murders where strangers or people passing through are killed by mobs of townspeople. Only Sheriff Gillis has no clue to what's going on. Fortunately, the town has an excellent undertaker, William G. Dobbs, who is happy to take care of this sudden death-wave which is good for his business. Gillis soon discovers clues that lead to many of the local inhabitants involved in the killings, including his own wife Janet

I really recommend this film as a great alternative zombie film and watch out for Jack Albertson, Grandpa Joe from Willie Wonka (1971), as the undertaker.



and to round off another OTT zombie comedy and this one stars Joe Piscopo

DEAD HEAT

[Image: 51AQX7Y69JL_SS500_.jpg]

IMDB:
Quote:Roger Mortis and Doug Bigelow are cops that are chasing crooks that are dead serious about crime. Or should I say they are chasing dead crooks perpetrating serious crimes? Seems some nutcase has learned how to bring back the dead and is sending them on crime sprees. Now these indestructable goons are in the way of officers Mortis and Bigelow. To even things up, when Mortis is killed (in the line of duty, of course) he gets a jump start from the Resurrection machine and takes the fight to the zombie bad guys.

"Roger Mortis"....see what they did there.

This might not be to everyone's taste but I like it and it has Vincent Price and Darren McGavin in it, what more could you want.
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04-10-2009, 03:06 PM
Post: #20
RE: Horror Movie discussion: ZOMBIES
Groan! (about the Roger Mortis)

I love Darren McGavin!

As always zombie67, you are a treasure trove of information about all things horror! Much obliged!
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