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Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
08-26-2015, 01:51 AM
Post: #11
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
(08-25-2015 11:50 PM)SoCalRMD Wrote:  All my flying frog games are officially dust collectors on my shelf unfortunately. My friends and I have played them so many times and with SoB has consumed FFG so much that every game has become ignored and with no new expansions even on the horizon for LNoE or FanG or anything but DG it's really got me thinking of just culling them from my game shelf and either selling them on ebay or trading them in to a local game store for credit so I can grab some other games I will enjoy. This really bums me out because LNoE got me into board games and now the company I loved just ran head first into a brickwall called SoB that has just stalled them big time.

You know, while we're clearing the air regarding our feelings toward Flying Frog, let me have my turn. This feeling started years ago with me. Literally years -- it's got to be close to ten since LNOE came out. I was a huge fan, but even at the time, there was this undercurrent of "Flying Frog knows best." At least, it felt like that to me. There was an issue with the game cards on the first run of LNOE where they were horribly dark, and when you added expansions it was so easy to see which were which. The response, summed up to a few words, was "don't worry about it." People were very worried about it. Another issue at the time was the promo cards, and if you'd missed some whether or not it would be possible to get them later. It was because of our endless whining that those damn promo cards were finally made more readily available.

What I realized was that I was way too interested in the collecting aspect, and bought all sets automatically because I wanted the promo cards and promo figures. It started to feel like a scam. That, plus shipping from Flying Frog to Canada is nuts. It's SO much cheaper to buy the games online NOT from Flying Frog, or from the local game store. So I was paying $50 in shipping for the pleasure of some promo cards. FANG was the straw that broke that camel's back.

And then Shadows. Oh, Shadows. I toyed with the idea endlessly, spent hours on Kickstarter, but finally decided to spend $500 on a board game was obscene. It broke the spell that Flying Frog had over me, and I haven't bought a thing since. At the time, I remember thinking that this game was going to officially ruin Flying Frog. My gosh, brilliant game or not, I'll forever think of my decision to stay the hell away as one of my better ones.

Was I going about it all wrong? Probably. I think Flying Frog wants people to just buy what they want and play with it. But they're hard core gamers, and you can't tell me that they had no idea that lots of game players are also collectors. That's my two cents, like it or not. I check in to this website once or twice a year. I'm glad I'm done with all these games.
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08-26-2015, 11:45 AM
Post: #12
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
A tad harsh but I see your points, still I think FFP deserves some slack. A lot of the problems you mentioned
were with their early releases & they did provide fixes. They are a small company and had some growing
pains with the process of getting games out the door.

Expansions to favorite Games are what players in general want be it FFP or FFG I also want to have "complete sets"
but cost wise I've just concentrated on AoE,FAG, SoB, fighting the collecting bug is an individual battle.

SoB -we've discussed the problems with that as it's the point of this thread but you didn't have to pay $500
for everything one core set gives you a complete Game .Again I understand the desire to get it all but you
can't blame FFP for offering a lot of options.

I don't think your wrong you have a valid reason based on what you want/expect which is different from mine
but that's the way of the world.I do hope you'll continue to drop in on us.

OD

Sighing like the night wind and sobbing like the rain,—
Wailing for the lost one that comes not again:
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08-27-2015, 11:23 PM (This post was last modified: 08-27-2015 11:26 PM by Raynor.)
Post: #13
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
Last Night On Earth was my first modern day game and since then, I've played a lot more games I would consider technically better than what FFP offers. Most of all I think I've really gotten worn out by the Roll-to-move mechanic which is tied so heavily into the core nature of LNoE and aToE. I've had too many games where I roll nothing higher than a 2 over an entire night. Since discovering other alternative methods of game design I just don't like to put up with it as a core game mechanic if I don't have to anymore. That being said, FFP continues to offer incredible production value. They're almost in a class of their own when it comes to this. It's that production value that keeps me around.

I really don't understand why more developers don't grasp the importance of Good Strong Theme in a game. My neighbors have played literally hundreds of more games than I have and they got rid of all their FFP games a few years ago because they said they didn't enjoy playing them anymore because the mechanics weren't as good as all their euro games. But when we visit them, they pull out these games they swear by and next thing I know I'm playing a Shipping Dock Master clearing out parking lots and unloading incoming freight..... As long as I can murder zombies, punch nazis, and hunt ancient evil beasts, FFP holds me as a fan, because no one else does it better. It's really as simple as that to me.

Anyway, I guess what I'm driving at here is maybe you should consider why you initially played FFP's games. I've clearly had my frustrations with them but I argue with my wife too, and that doesn't change the reasons I got together with her to begin with. I think FFP does something quite special. They're going through a rough patch right now to be sure, but they still produce really solid content. Shadows of Brimstone is without a doubt in my Top 3 favorite Board games of theirs so far. With more expansions and more play time it might even move into the number 1 spot, as I feel it is technically far superior to their previous work.

As for being a collector, I never went coo coo for cocopuffs for their promos, but at one point I owned literally every product FFP had ever released. Nowadays I only keep up with a select number of their games.

And OD isn't joking about not having to pay 500 bucks for the whole shebang. I still haven't gotten past the first box to be honest. I loved it so much, that I've played it 3 times until we were all exhausted with it and we took a break. That's weeks-months of fun for like 75$ on coolstuffinc. Totally worth it. As I said before, I'm starting to feel like the kickstarter wasn't worth it. But the game certainly is.
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08-29-2015, 08:43 PM
Post: #14
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
Their theme in their game is some of the best out their. I think I dodged a serious bullett by not being a completeionist or hardcore collector, if I was FFP easily would've broke my bank. SoB might be more attractive to me if not for having to build the models myself, I know that might sound lazy to some or weird, but as much as a dungeon crawler raises my interest, especially with a theme like this, I just don't have the time to piece them all together. I am glad ya'll like the game and I hope ya'll get your items from your kickstarter too, looks like an amazing game...maybe one day, or if I can find a friend who feels like building some minis lol
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09-02-2015, 07:59 PM
Post: #15
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
No I don't think it sounds lazy in the least SoCalRMD. I might have found some enjoyment in building the minis but I would have preferred them to come pre-built like all the other games. Having to assemble them has been a serious, if rewarding, pain in the neck. I think it's a real negative that there's so much lead time required to actually play the game. One of my big problems with the PS3 back in the day was the Hours and hours and HOURS of loading and downloading and patching times required to play a new game out of the box. Being able to play the game out of the box is an important thing that Shadows of Brimstone has sacrificed. I can understand not liking that.
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09-04-2015, 06:25 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2015 06:26 PM by StayPuft.)
Post: #16
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
I hear ya. Don't get me wrong. I understand it can be overwhelming to put together a completely new game. I don't think they anticipated quite how well the KickStarter was going to do. It wound up being enough stuff that they would normally release it all in several expansions over years. With KickStarter, though, it is different. It tends to be intended as one release.

I, too, try to give them the benefit of the doubt because I LOVE Flying Frog and their games. It's just getting increasingly more and more difficult. To be honest, my distaste for this game started when we discovered we'd have to construct the miniatures, and hasn't stopped growing from there. I HATE to sound like one of those folks who just complains all the time about anything and everything. That is NOT me AT ALL. In fact, I'm like a frigging FFP cheerleader....

But I was miffed when I found that out because I've never really done that and am not really all that good at that sort of thing. But, I figured how hard could it be? In fairness, it isn't really all THAT hard, but it is BY NO MEANS beginner level stuff. There is a lot of precision work involved. I was determined to give it a try anyway.

I got almost all of the miniatures for one of the core sets together by the time I ran out of patience. It felt like every time I'd get one piece glued on another that I had already glued would fall off. Gets to the point where I am damn near ready to murder somebody if another piece falls off, so it just was not worth my frustration.

No matter what I try to tell myself, I have NOT been able to motivate myself to get back to it. Eventually I plan to, but I just don't know. As result, I still have not played the game and I have absolutely no desire to play.

Initially I tried to tell myself "Look at these awesome miniatures. It's because of the great detail that they had to make them this way. You have to construct them so you can get that kind of detail." ....Yeah, that's absolute bull crap. Just take one look at ANY game that included Cool Mini Or Not miniatures and you will see you can get some BAD @$$ miniatures that you don't have to do one damn thing to construct.

I swear one of these days I will motivate myself to finish so I can actually play the damn game, but right now even looking at the game just makes me mad. Nevermind the fact that I still have a TON of extras coming at some point during my life-span and all I can think is "Great. More stuff I'm going to have to glue together."

Again, I hate, hate, HATE having to complain. I soooo wanted to love this game to death. Truthfully, I probably will once I get past the initial frustration.

But, I definitely understand your frustration with this game overall. I most definitely agree it is absurd that they are releasing things to the general public that we, the KickStarter backers still do not have. That almost feels like a slap in the face, really.

I too will be happy when everything is finally in my hands and this whole thing is behind us. Then I can go back to loving Flying Frog again. I just don't think I'll ever support their KickStarter campaigns in the future. Again, I understand how overwhelming it must be, but frankly they have not handled the whole thing very well.
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09-07-2015, 05:15 PM
Post: #17
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
Hey, Stay Puft... maybe you need a faster-setting glue? Try plastic cement. I used that, held the pieces together for like 2-3 seconds, and bam. It was solidly connected. That might be less annoying than a glue that needs to dry.
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09-08-2015, 02:02 PM
Post: #18
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
(09-07-2015 05:15 PM)gavindowning Wrote:  Hey, Stay Puft... maybe you need a faster-setting glue? Try plastic cement. I used that, held the pieces together for like 2-3 seconds, and bam. It was solidly connected. That might be less annoying than a glue that needs to dry.

X2- Plastic Cement should solve your problem, I also got
good results from the plastic glue War Paints sells.

When I first started assembling plastic miniatures I used
some regular super glue on GW Imperial Guards & it just
did not work switched to a plastic glue & no problems.

OD

Sighing like the night wind and sobbing like the rain,—
Wailing for the lost one that comes not again:
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09-11-2015, 07:34 PM
Post: #19
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
Thank you. I've gotten similar advice and will definitely eventually give that a try. For now, though, I've just been completely unable to motivate myself to bother. Eventually I will, but for now I'm too frustrated with the whole thing to give it another go.
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09-12-2015, 03:33 PM
Post: #20
RE: Officially Irritated With Flying Frog...
lol when I sat down to glue together Swamps of Jargano, I got it all done and then left the room for 5 minutes and came back to find my daughter had climbed onto the table and snapped a couple of my freshly finished pieces apart.
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