Quick question - Father Joseph's ability.

[PJON]

Hi colorado_13, now im getting confused. Lets see where we agree

Father Joe Is in a Fight and takes a wound.

The Zombie player plays Bitten/Feeling strange.

Father Joe, takes another wound,using strenght of spirit, and tries to cancel the Bitten/feeling strange card, and fails. The zombie card takes effect. Father Joe is now a Zombie


Are you saying the moment he takes the strength of spirit wound he becomes a zombie? Maybe it is like a magic interupt ? Even though father joe took a wound he gets to see if his ability works or not. If it works, it works. If he fails, he fails.

[colorado_13]

There are 2 situations:
1: He is wounded and the zombie player uses the card. Father Joseph uses strength of spirit to try to cancel the PLAYING of the card, meaning that hes trying to stop the card from being played. In my opinion, he can get wounded as much as he wants trying to avoid the card from being played, since its not in effect yet.
2: The card is played, not cancelled (either because he didnt want to, didnt have enough life to or failed miserably trying to) so its a remain in play, affecting the hero. As from now, if he ever gets wounded, he becomes a zombie. Theoretically if he uses strenght of spirit, he get a wound AND THEN rolls to cancel a card, so unless he uses something like "just a scratch", he becomes a zombie and therefore cannot cancel the card, because its not even in play anymore (the card is removed when he becomes a zombie). But there is an official Q&A in the flying frog wiki saying that after the card is in effect he can try ONCE to cancel it, taking the damage but not becoming the zombie hes born to be unless he fails in the die rolling. So my disagreement is with this rule, although its an official one, i dont see any logic in that, after all he gets wounded.
I would only change my mind if this skill (Strenght of spirit) worked as an interruption magic (so the wound and the skill count as one event, that takes place before the effect of the card he is trying to cancel) or if this is a special situation so he can try to pray his curse out. I think hes already very overpowered, but im usually the zombie player, so i may be a little biased...hehehe.
And if its an interruption magic he could just try another time, with the effect of the next occuring before the previous anyways.

[PJON]

Hi, yuppers im confused, happens all the time though.

1: He is wounded and the zombie player uses the card. Father Joseph uses strength of spirit to try to cancel the PLAYING of the card, meaning that hes trying to stop the card from being played.


In my opinion, he can get wounded as much as he wants trying to avoid the card from being played, since its not in effect yet.

I disagree with that. Once the card is played; The next wound the hero takes, they become a Zombie. Father Joe is the exception, he can use his strength of spirit, take and wound, and try not to become a zombie.

2. I would only change my mind if this skill (Strenght of spirit) worked as an interruption magic (so the wound and the skill count as one event, that takes place before the effect of the card he is trying to cancel) or if this is a special situation so he can try to pray his curse out

Yes, i agree with that, and i feel it works the same way

[colorado_13]

In the first case he´s trying to avoid the card from being played, so he takes a wound before it is in effect:
Q11: How does Father Joseph’s Strength of Spirit ability work?
A11: Strength of Spirit may be used at any time to attempt to Cancel a Zombie Card being played or that ‘Remains in Play’. Father Joseph first takes a wound and then rolls to cancel the Zombie Card on the roll of 3+.
Imagine this situation:
He´s fully healed, then get wounded by a zombie. The Z player uses "I Feel Kinda Strange", he then takes a wound (his second) to try to cancel the card, and fails. So the card was not in effect when he was wounded, so nothing happens.
Now he gets one wound healed, takes another wound to try to cancel the card. The official Q&A says he gets to roll the die to check if the card can be cancelled:
Q12: If Father Joseph has “I Feel Kinda Strange…” played on him, can he use his Strength of Spirit to cancel it without becoming a Zombie Hero?
A12: Father Joseph may use his Strength of Spirit to cancel “I Feel Kinda Strange…” as it is being played with no problems. Once “I Feel Kinda Strange…” ‘Remains in Play’ on him though, it is a little bit more dangerous. He may try to cancel it once, by taking a wound with Strength of Spirit, but if he fails, he is immediately turned into a Zombie Hero.
I say he´s a zombie and doesnt get to roll anything, because the card is not in play anymore (He could still become a zombie trying to cancel another card, as a sacrifice, he just woundnt roll against "I Feel..."because there is no card to roll for anymore).

[PJON]

Q11: How does Father Joseph’s Strength of Spirit ability work?

A11: Strength of Spirit may be used at any time to attempt to Cancel a Zombie Card being played or that ‘Remains in Play’. Father Joseph first takes a wound and then rolls to cancel the Zombie Card on the roll of 3+. He may use this ability even if doing so will take his last wound, killing him (you are still allowed to roll to see if the card is cancelled). He may also use this ability multiple times to try and cancel the same card (assuming he failed the first time by rolling a 1 or 2).

He may even use this ability during a Fight. This is especially useful if he is about to lose a Fight and take his last wound. He may instead, voluntarily take his last wound to try and cancel an existing Zombie Card (sort of a ‘with his last breath’ notion).


Q12: If Father Joseph has “I Feel Kinda Strange…” played on him, can he use his Strength of Spirit to cancel it without becoming a Zombie Hero?

A12: Father Joseph may use his Strength of Spirit to cancel “I Feel Kinda Strange…” as it is being played with no problems. Once “I Feel Kinda Strange…” ‘Remains in Play’ on him though, it is a little bit more dangerous. He may try to cancel it once, by taking a wound with Strength of Spirit, but if he fails, he is immediately turned into a Zombie Hero.

Yeah, like that.

[Phantaskippy]

Quote:He´s fully healed, then get wounded by a zombie. The Z player uses "I Feel Kinda Strange", he then takes a wound (his second) to try to cancel the card, and fails. So the card was not in effect when he was wounded, so nothing happens.
Now he gets one wound healed, takes another wound to try to cancel the card. The official Q&A says he gets to roll the die to check if the card can be cancelled:
Q12: If Father Joseph has “I Feel Kinda Strange…” played on him, can he use his Strength of Spirit to cancel it without becoming a Zombie Hero?
A12: Father Joseph may use his Strength of Spirit to cancel “I Feel Kinda Strange…” as it is being played with no problems. Once “I Feel Kinda Strange…” ‘Remains in Play’ on him though, it is a little bit more dangerous. He may try to cancel it once, by taking a wound with Strength of Spirit, but if he fails, he is immediately turned into a Zombie Hero.
I say he´s a zombie and doesnt get to roll anything, because the card is not in play anymore (He could still become a zombie trying to cancel another card, as a sacrifice, he just woundnt roll against "I Feel..."because there is no card to roll for anymore).

Timing is wrong. In LNOE the cards are not prevented they are cancelled.

However, you have to resolve each card before the next is resolved. That's why you can wait until the cards resolution is determined before cancelling it. Once another action occurs it is past time to cancel, but until then it's kosher.

In Joe's ability, the Zombie card is played first. When he tries to cancel it he takes a wound, but bitten or feel strange don't take place until the ability is finished, it doesn't interrupt the ability. After the roll takes place you would resolve the zombie card's effect, if it is still around to affect him.

If it said "Immediately turns into a zombie" that would be different.

[colorado_13]

Hmm that kind of makes sense then.
But why cant he just take a second hit?
When he is trying to cancel the playing of a card he can try more then once.

[Phantaskippy]

I don't think I understand the question.

If you are asking can father Joe, upon failing the attempt then make a second attempt to cancel it, that is definitely an interesting question.

I would say yes, that you can piggy back repeatedly until the effect you are trying to cancel is resolved. Like in a fight, all sorts of cards can be played after dice are rolled, the winner is calculated but the fight is not resolved. You are only limited by your available cards, and other specific rules, no timing limit exists.

The last phrase there is improperly worded. You do not cancel the playing of a card. You cancel the effect. The card is still played, it's effect would have taken place but it was cancelled before resolution. The space of time between the playing of a card and the resolution of the card in this game is limited only by how many cards you can play. Works the same with special actions like Father Joe's. That's why fights can be cancelled all the way up to the end, before the actual resolution of the fight you can change the results.

With cards that add dice to a fight, they must be cancelled before the dice are rolled, because the rolling of the dice is the resolution of the effect. Once the dice are rolled the cards effect is resolved and can no longer be affected. Even remains in play zombie cards like Living Nightmare that grants a zombie hero 2 extra fight dice, if the Zombie hero rolls four dice and you decide then to cancel the card, you can (because it remains in play, so is still there to be cancelled after it is resolved), but the effect on that fight is unchanged, because the effect was resolved. It would be the same as waiting till the fight ended and then cancelling it. The effect on that fight was resolved and is not changeable.