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Revealing Evil Elder, when?
04-16-2012, 01:58 PM
Post: #1
Revealing Evil Elder, when?
Ok last night I got my first game in had a few questions (one I asked in the Militia thread about Showdowns) but I have another concerning Revealing evil elders.

During my turn I used my action to see the elders secret. He turnd out to be evil. what are my options upon discovering this? The rules were alittle vague to me on this issue.. and how does this play in an accusation during a showdown???

1. Keep that information to myself without revealing the Elder?
2. Immediately turn over to evil side and place him next to villain?
3 other option i am not aware of yet?

thanks...
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04-21-2012, 11:27 AM
Post: #2
RE: Revealing Evil Elder, when?
1=YES(unless it's a co-op Game you can share with your partner)
2=No-only if/when that Elder is killed
3=If you know an Elder is Evil you don't choose
him for your Hunting Party.In the competitive Game
if your opponent picks the Evil Elder you can challenge.

OD

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10-30-2012, 07:09 AM
Post: #3
RE: Revealing Evil Elder, when?
Just to clarify, if I know (via investigation) that an elder is evil, in co-op mode he immediately sides with the villain when he dies?

Also, accusations only happen in competitive mode, right? No use for it in co-op/solo?
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10-30-2012, 08:47 PM (This post was last modified: 10-30-2012 09:00 PM by Achtung Panzer.)
Post: #4
RE: Revealing Evil Elder, when?
(10-30-2012 07:09 AM)LabRat Wrote:  Just to clarify, if I know (via investigation) that an elder is evil, in co-op mode he immediately sides with the villain when he dies?

Also, accusations only happen in competitive mode, right? No use for it in co-op/solo?

I'm new to the game too and have posted similar questions on BGG. I think my confusion comes from the 'peeking' rule / ability in co-op: do you reveal the card? The co-op rule says Secret cards are revealed (i.e. shown), but this is not the same as Secrets being Revealed (i.e. applied) as part of the Showdown Hunting Party / Accusation phase.

The FAQ says:

"Revealing Secrets
When a Hero looks at the Secrets of a Town Elder, they may reveal any of those Secrets. Any Secrets that are ‘Reveal Immediately’ must be revealed.
If the Hero is using a card or ability to look/peek at Secrets “without revealing them”, they may not reveal any of those Secrets. In this case however, Secrets listed as ‘Reveal Immediately’ may be revealed if the Hero likes."

When an Evil Secret card says "immediately flip and join the Villian" I think this only applies during the Showdown Hunting Party / Accusation phase, but you can see where the confusion comes from.

I'm glad it's not just me who is a little confused

(04-21-2012 11:27 AM)Old Dwarf Wrote:  2=No-only if/when that Elder is killed

OD

I thought a killed Town Elder (not in a Showdown) is turned sideways and keeps the Secrets, as they can still be later Accused and join the Villian in a Showdown, having 'faked' their own death.
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10-30-2012, 11:06 PM
Post: #5
RE: Revealing Evil Elder, when?
When discussing the Revealing of Elder's Secrets, it is important to note the Mode of Play, as they function differently in Co-op/Solo than they do in Competitive. Here is the pertanant info from the rules for Co-Op (which would apply to Solo as well for the most part):

Quote:Also, any time a player looks at a Town Elder’s Secrets, reveal them for all to see. Note that this does
NOT apply to cards or abilities that specifically say, “without revealing”. When a Town Elder is killed, move the Shadow Track as normal and then reveal all of that Elder’s Secrets. Any Keyword Evil Secrets they have immediately take effect, turning them into an Evil Elder instead.

Some Secrets are listed as Reveal Immediately. This is very much like ‘Play Immediately’, only whenever a player investigates the Town Elder and looks at this Secret, it must be immediately revealed and read aloud. These Secrets usually involve placing the marker for the Town Elder onto the board or having the Town Elder actually join a Hero temporarily. Reveal Immediately cards do NOT have to be revealed if the Hero is using a specific card or ability that says “without revealing”, though you may reveal the card if you wish.

So, in short, in these modes of play, if you Investigate as normal, use a card/effect that DOES NOT specify "without revealing", or the Elder is killed, the "Reveal Immediately" Secrets (such as "Darkest Secret") immediately take effect. If you have a card/ability that lets you look "without revealing" you've dodged the bullet, kept their duplicity quiet & kept them from running off to joing their Master! Good Job! Watchmen02

Also, yes, accusations only factor into Competitive & serve no use in othe modes of play.

"If you had any sense, you'd leave now! Get out while ya still can! It's too late for th' rest'a us. The Horseman rides tonight, an' he's comin' to take us all ta Hell!"
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10-30-2012, 11:44 PM
Post: #6
RE: Revealing Evil Elder, when?
Hmm, I've been playing it wrong then. Can't wait to play again, this time with the correct way of dealing with the Elders.
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10-31-2012, 12:38 AM
Post: #7
RE: Revealing Evil Elder, when?
(10-30-2012 11:44 PM)LabRat Wrote:  Hmm, I've been playing it wrong then. Can't wait to play again, this time with the correct way of dealing with the Elders.

My first game ever I thought ALL Elder Secrets had to be revealed when the Showdown began. All of the Elders (that hadn't already) ended up joining the Vampire.

I lost.Insane20
---MSWatchmen01

"If you had any sense, you'd leave now! Get out while ya still can! It's too late for th' rest'a us. The Horseman rides tonight, an' he's comin' to take us all ta Hell!"
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10-31-2012, 10:17 PM
Post: #8
RE: Revealing Evil Elder, when?
Here is the clarification I go by:

If the secret reads “When revealed”
Competitive: A player may investigate (look at) these secrets without revealing them or he may choose to reveal any or all of them. If he is instead looking at them with a “without revealing” card or ability then he cannot reveal any of them.
Co-op: A player must reveal these secrets when investigating (looking at) them. If he is instead looking at them with a “without revealing” card or ability, he must keep them all hidden.

If the secret reads “Reveal immediately”
Competitive and Co-op: A player must reveal these secrets when investigating (looking at) them. If he is instead looking at them with a “without revealing” card or ability, he may keep any or all of them hidden, and reveal only those he chooses.

Town Elder Hunting Party:
Competitive and Co-op: All secrets of town elders in a hunting party are revealed.

Town Elder Death (while not in a showdown):
Competitive: Undiscolosed secrets remain hidden.
Co-op: All secrets are revealed.

Town Elder Death (while in a showdown):
Competitive and Co-op: All secrets are discarded along with the elder.

Town Elder flips to evil:
Competitive and Co-op: the first evil secret revealed trumps all other secrets of the elder (revealed or not) and causes them to be discarded.

(It should be noted that Solo is similar if not the same as Co-op.)
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11-01-2012, 12:42 AM (This post was last modified: 11-01-2012 12:42 AM by MoonSylver.)
Post: #9
RE: Revealing Evil Elder, when?
This is the best breakdown of Secrets & how they're revealed I've ever seen. Good job. Watchmen02
---MSWatchmen01

"If you had any sense, you'd leave now! Get out while ya still can! It's too late for th' rest'a us. The Horseman rides tonight, an' he's comin' to take us all ta Hell!"
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