Stopped playing around level 4, rather disappointed

[BlackswordSteve]

I've always been a huge fan of Flying Frog. I fell in love with the company's dedication to an immersive, thematic, adventure in a box and my group still enjoys bringing their games to the table even after years of play. I was a bit apprehensive about SoB at first, but decided to give it a try as by that time the hype had been going on for quite awhile. I was impressed that Flying Frog was trying something daring and new, and that they were finally getting some of the spotlight in a crowded, competitive hobby, but ultimately, I felt the end result left much to be desired and hardly encouraged investing in other expansions. I'm half wondering if we were reading some rules wrong, because many aspects of the game felt rather vague and incomplete. I hate to say it, but to our group it felt as if we were playing a prototype almost.

Did any of your guys' possees find themselves with hundreds and hundreds of dollars left over even after spending a lot, for example? Our group seemed to run out of useful things to buy once we hit level 3 as we've already looted most of the good stuff in the base game. We ended up always just buying the usual buffs for the next adventure, not really needing a reason to do much else. And what was with the hotel? What was it, $5 or $10 to stay the night? Why on Earth would you not pay that small amount and risk sleeping at the camp? Did my posse just get lucky a lot or read the rules wrong, or are other people's groups experiencing similar issues even at low levels?

My main complaint, though, would have to be the absence of any kind of narrative that ties the campaign together. And that feels weird to say, considering Flying Frog's games usually can weave an interesting story of their own through the card play and character abilities. With SoB however, the players are told, suggestively and even outright in the rules, to "imagine a narrative that connects the missions". That would make sense with any of their other one-shot, scenario based games, but with a game like SoB that is clearly meant to be a campaign with persisting player characters, it feels as if there is a whole chunk of the game that is missing. It comes off even stranger when you look at the whole bsckstory to Brimstone, it's map, and NPC bios in the rule books. What are all these towns? Are we supposed to feel like we're traversing this map? Who are these characters we never get to meet? Are we supposed to roleplay the whole, connecting story outside of what little narrative we're given with the missions? Like....I feel like I have to take on the role of Game Master and add a whole bunch of custom missions and rules to make the game actually make sense as a campaign beyond " you failed this one mission, so a building is destroyed the next time you go to whatever town you want to pretend you're visiting on the map". I enjoy adding custom content to flying frog games and imagining the bigger picture behind the other games' cards, but it feels wrong here, like it's expected of you.... Like I have to do the work of bridging the gap between dungeon crawl and pseudo-RPG. For $100, and possibly more with expansions, that seems especially disappointing.

But I'm just venting, I suppose. I just feel a little baffled. The game feels so....empty, for being a flying frog title. But like I said, maybe I'm over thinking things or reading some rules wrong somewhere.

What are your guys' experiences with this?

[gavindowning]

Wow. My experience is like the polar opposite of yours. I found the openness of the campaign allows my friends and me to craft a narrative that fits our own characters and experiences. We can lead from one adventure to another, resolving elements from our characters' backstories, and building new stories as we go. Now that I just got the massive expansions from 1.5 shipping from the Kickstarter, we're about to start over from scratch, turning it as much in an RPG as it is a boardgame.

[Old Dwarf]

BsS- I can't really say anything about the experience
of your Group but I usually don't get out of an adventure
with a great deal of money & I usually get screwed in town
so having too much has never been a problem.

As to a Campaign Narrative your right SoB is a series of one off Scenarios & when you finish one you simply draw another
which gives you another reason to go into the Mine so you
can work your Hero toward leveling up & retirement.

I'm not sure you can really ask for a structured narrative
imposed via the Game & if FFP had one it would severely
limit the Game. SoB is just too big with the number of heroes,
Monsters & Locations so if you want to impose a Campaign Arc
you need to dip into RP GM to do so.

Like GD I find this one of the real highlights of SoB & allows
you to "own" the Game. You mentioned the Map I chose to
ignore it & instead use the actual territory/towns that existed
at the territory "Brimstone" is set in. (Looks like I'll have
to update my towns when I get the Frontier Town Expansion)

Perhaps one day FFP will do a Campaign Tree of interlocked
Mission Scenarios.

OD

[Raynor]

Yeah I can't say I am unhappy with the product. I certainly don't feel it is worth the 750 or so dollars I've dumped into it, but this was my first of the only two kickstarters I have ever done so I kind of approached it with a all-in perspective and what board game is worth $750 bucks anyway? None that I've encountered.

Still, for what it's worth I'm a big fan of the game. Rather than be upset by the lack of a campaign, I am happy that it has missions and a leveling up system at all. I feel like you're looking at it from a glass half empty perspective? It's a board game you sit down to play. But next time you come to play you can connect your last game with the new one. I like it! I like everything about it!

Definitely worth the $100 price tag imho.

[BlackswordSteve]

Hmm. Fair enough, those are all good points. I don't normally complain about stuff like this, especially in Flying Frog games, but things just seemed off in the game we were playing. I guess we'll try starting over and seeing if our next party is a little more balanced.

Still wish they would get back to their other games though. I'm eager to see the next ATOE expansion!

[samuraitrev]

(03-11-2016 06:37 PM)BlackswordSteve Wrote:  Hmm. Fair enough, those are all good points. I don't normally complain about stuff like this, especially in Flying Frog games, but things just seemed off in the game we were playing. I guess we'll try starting over and seeing if our next party is a little more balanced.

Still wish they would get back to their other games though. I'm eager to see the next ATOE expansion!

I know what you mean Blackswordsteve. This isn't frog bashing BTW it just seems like the other games have been forgotten. Bring us more LNoE and AToE they're the games that I want to see more of.

[Old Dwarf]

That's the real kicker, it seemed like a cool idea to KS an entire base game & several years worth
of expansions at one go. But I doubt if the Froggers thought it would be as massively popular as
it turned out.

I'm sure a lot of the stretch goals thrown in were a little more that concepts to keep up with the
pledges & now their stuck with having to actually produce the promised content. To do that it's
SoB 24/7 which leaves nothing for the rest of the line not to mention new Games ( remember
their hint that they had another KS that would be bigger than SoB) so I hope it's lesson learned.

OD

[mqstout]

I hope they've had their cake, eaten it, and release more product for their existing titles, non-Kickstarter.

[Odie]

(03-11-2016 08:18 PM)Old Dwarf Wrote:  That's the real kicker, it seemed like a cool idea to KS an entire base game & several years worth
of expansions at one go. But I doubt if the Froggers thought it would be as massively popular as
it turned out.

I'm sure a lot of the stretch goals thrown in were a little more that concepts to keep up with the
pledges & now their stuck with having to actually produce the promised content. To do that it's
SoB 24/7 which leaves nothing for the rest of the line not to mention new Games ( remember
their hint that they had another KS that would be bigger than SoB) so I hope it's lesson learned.

OD

I wonder what the non-kickstarter sales are like? Aside from seeing people talk about it here, or on youtube videos from people I know backed the kickstarter, I've never heard of anyone who's bought it off the shelves. Could the kickstarter money pocketed after production costs for SOB really let them ignore their other games this much, and not cause a dent in overall sales to FF?

[gavindowning]

I've seen plenty of people (over on BGG, for example) who missed the Kickstarter and are buying everything they can for the game.