had some play time and have a few rules ?'s

[soundguy]

got to play some lnoe this weekend.. as the zombie player, I won both games

3 issues came up.

1, there is a card called unstoppable that prevents a zombie from taking wounds from a ranged attack or from exploding gas markers.

the exploding gas marker doesn't do wounds just says killed. players tried to argue the zombie should be dead.. my counter argument was the card wouldn't be in the deck if it didn't have effect????

2, played with grave dead 'very rotten' that ignore a wound on a 4+

how do you handle those with 'killed' or 'killed instantly' since 'kill' means to fill up all wound boxes.

3, some of the players lamented the fact that they were able to find no hand weapons in one scenerio except for jump cables, and they had some bad luck with shotguns and rifles running out of ammo after 1 shot.. I said.. hey.. bad luck.. it happens. after all.. hero's beat me in 2 games after only 3-4 turns by using sewers to get townsfold out of town in one game, and in a stock up game, they literally found all their stock up items in 2 turns.. bad luck for me.

in any case.. they wonder why you can't use pretty much anything as a club. ie.. why can't an empty shotgun be used as a club?

we were toying with a 'common' hand weapon rule that was worth 1 dot or 2 dots.. say.. for 1 dot, empty long guns could be used as a club and add +1 to the hero's role as a combat bonus, but break on a 1-2-3 after each use... or for 2 dots, a hero can forgo a search action and 'find' a common club that does the same.. +1 to roll, and breaks 1-2-3 after each use. this would simulate being able to pretty much able to find -something- to whack a zombie with no matter where youy are.. for instance.. a table leg.. a broom handle, chunk of wood fromthe fire place, shovel handle.. etc.. etc.

any comments.

soundguy

[mqstout]

1: "Kill" is defined as "fill up the wound boxes". Thus, the exploding gas marker would deal as many wounds as the zombie has. Preventing one saves it.
2: Same thing here. Prevent one and it prevents the kill. However, "instantly kill" has a special meaning. But, despite that special meaning, you can still prevent wounds. Look up a talk we had about the zombie card that lets a zombie use the meat cleaver for a combat.

3: I have no problem with this variant, but I'd make it break more than half the time, or make it use-once-only. Also, a club would probably add one extra fight dice more than add one to a roll. (Modifying the rolls are a lot rarer/more powerful than adding an extra fight dice.) This probably deserves its own post in "variants".

We've had A LOT of discussions about the randomness of the draw in some scenarios (Stock Up and Escape in the Truck being the big two). Look for them. Grunduza just made a post in variants with a possible, from his perspective, fix to the scenario going by too quickly.

Some luck like that is no problem for me. LNOE is the board game of reenacting a zombie movie. In some movies, the protagonists all die in the end. In some, they never really find a good way to fight back and you just eat popcorn while the zombies eat brains.

[soundguy]

ok.. I thought I was playing correct on the prevention of wounds sving the zombie, just checking.

thanks

soundguy

[Pfr_Fate]

I am of the opinion that the characters without weapon cards are already using anything they can get their hands on. The weapon cards are for 'special' weapons above that of 'anyting for a club'.

My very rough proof?

Well, Heroes get 2 dice against zombies 1 die. Remember that this is a normal human versus an undead creature. Yep, the human is smarter, but the zombie is more primal when attacking. Also, Grave Weapons often add a +1 Fight Dice to Zombies.

.

[soundguy]

does make some sense when looked at like that.

soundguy

[Emp]

I'm with Fate on this one.
Otherwise we can go an invent new rules because heroes can also kick, punch and headbutt their way to safety

[flightmek25]

(11-16-2010 03:46 PM)Pfr_Fate Wrote:  I am of the opinion that the characters without weapon cards are already using anything they can get their hands on. The weapon cards are for 'special' weapons above that of 'anyting for a club'.

My very rough proof?

Well, Heroes get 2 dice against zombies 1 die. Remember that this is a normal human versus an undead creature. Yep, the human is smarter, but the zombie is more primal when attacking. Also, Grave Weapons often add a +1 Fight Dice to Zombies.
.

I completely agree with this. Sometimes it's easy to get lost in a game and start thinking up all kinds of "house rules" to compensate for things that may seem unfair or unbalanced. Meanwhile, the rules already have taken care of it for you - even if they don't blatantly express it. In my opinion, messing with rules has a tendency to over-complicate things or lead to even further rules arguments (there's always that one card or special case that screws hard with a house rule.) Of course, modifying scenarios or rules w/ certain goals in mind is completely different.

As far as the randomness factor of weapon and gear pulls from the decks, I think FFP has done an awesome job with this. How often in a zombie movie are you like, "What the hell is he doing? Why didn't he grab that extra ammo?" or "She's such an idiot...I would totally lock the door right there." I think the luck factor really captures that movie-feel that LNoE achieves so well.

[soundguy]

I try to tell my group this as well. it's random. sometimes you are the grass sometimes the mower.

I even try to give my humans a chance. I *rarely* play with the grave weapons .. though i do use grave dead as often as possible.

and yeah.. it should be hard to fight something that attacks only and doesn't bother defending because it does not feel pain or loose blood.

as for movement. I thinkt he 1d6 is fine. how many times have we slipped in some mud or hit a small hole.. or a toy / rake left out in the yard.. etc.

soundguy

[flightmek25]

(11-29-2010 10:58 PM)soundguy Wrote:  I try to tell my group this as well. it's random. sometimes you are the grass sometimes the mower.

I even try to give my humans a chance. I *rarely* play with the grave weapons .. though i do use grave dead as often as possible.

and yeah.. it should be hard to fight something that attacks only and doesn't bother defending because it does not feel pain or loose blood.

as for movement. I thinkt he 1d6 is fine. how many times have we slipped in some mud or hit a small hole.. or a toy / rake left out in the yard.. etc.

soundguy

On Movement:
You are 100% right about this one. But aside from the character being a total clown and slipping and sliding everywhere, there is so much more that can be going on that we simply can't see. Just because the map shows a clear, grassy field, doesn't mean there is nothing there. After all, it is easy to imagine the following as explanations for bad die rolls:

1.) there could be an abandoned car the hero jumps in as he/she desperately searches for keys.
2.) Perhaps the hero finds a gun only to realize it is out of ammo.
3.)Maybe there is a fence along that field that the hero has difficulty climbing.
4.) The hero could fall down a hill and be temporarily hurt while the zombies close in...
5.) Perhaps, unsure of where to go next, the hero attempts to hide in an old barn.

The possibilities are endless. It seems that your players - much like mine - are viewing the game mechanically instead of virtually.

[soundguy]

yep.. could be interveinging foliage.. or other transient obstacles that just aren't 'MAP' items.

lawnmower out in the way.. garbage cans.. gate with a slightly rusty lock.. pile of raked leaves. stack of stones for garden work.. etc..

I tried to tell my guys to think of it like this.

start outside, now run in thru your house at top speed, run into the kitchen and grab a big plastic spoon ( imagine it is a knofe.. only safer ).. now run at top speed out another door.

hard to run at top speed in even a clean open plan house.... now imagine something trying to eat you is following.. imagine the lights may not be on. I don't leave mine on when i leave..

and remember some of this happens at night... might not be a good moon. might be cold so there is restrictive clothing... and keep in mind there was liekly no advance notice of the upcoming undead happy hour.. thus you might be on your way home from work.. or otherwise not prepaired for survival 101.. might be a lil shel shocked for having to shoot your neighbor after he tried to eat you.

soundguy

(11-29-2010 11:08 PM)flightmek25 Wrote:  

(11-29-2010 10:58 PM)soundguy Wrote:  I try to tell my group this as well. it's random. sometimes you are the grass sometimes the mower.

I even try to give my humans a chance. I *rarely* play with the grave weapons .. though i do use grave dead as often as possible.

and yeah.. it should be hard to fight something that attacks only and doesn't bother defending because it does not feel pain or loose blood.

as for movement. I thinkt he 1d6 is fine. how many times have we slipped in some mud or hit a small hole.. or a toy / rake left out in the yard.. etc.

soundguy

On Movement:
You are 100% right about this one. But aside from the character being a total clown and slipping and sliding everywhere, there is so much more that can be going on that we simply can't see. Just because the map shows a clear, grassy field, doesn't mean there is nothing there. After all, it is easy to imagine the following as explanations for bad die rolls:

1.) there could be an abandoned car the hero jumps in as he/she desperately searches for keys.
2.) Perhaps the hero finds a gun only to realize it is out of ammo.
3.)Maybe there is a fence along that field that the hero has difficulty climbing.
4.) The hero could fall down a hill and be temporarily hurt while the zombies close in...
5.) Perhaps, unsure of where to go next, the hero attempts to hide in an old barn.

The possibilities are endless. It seems that your players - much like mine - are viewing the game mechanically instead of virtually.