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In the group I play in (where I'm always the Zombie player), the general dynamic tends to be that a couple of Hero players meticulously analyze and plan out every detail of the Heroes' overall strategy and each Hero's individual turn. This has two main negative effects:

#1: The game takes forever. For example, we played a game of Supply Run this weekend, which has 17 turns allocated. They won by turn 9-10, and by that time more than 2 hours had passed already. Games where we make it to the end of the allocated turns take longer.

#2: Things become very boring for the other Hero players who aren't as strategy-minded, or just not inclined to try and speak up in the discussion. They end up spending a great deal of the game waiting while others talk, and on their turns they simply do what they're told.

Has anyone else run into this problem? Any ideas on how to counter it?

I'm not sure how you would place/enforce any kind of limit on how much collaboration there can be between Hero players. I suppose placing a time limit on each Hero's turn would help. The problem common to both those solutions, however, is that, despite all their collaboration, my Heroes often lose in scenarios other than "Die Zombies Die." Having less time/opportunity to strategize might just frustrate them.

An option, at least for game length, would be to try and adjust the turn limit and objectives to make for a shorter game. (That wouldn't do anything about engaging the more passive players, though.) Has anyone tried this? I anticipate it might be difficult to balance. Simply reducing the turns and objectives by equal measure might work for some scenarios, but in others the first few objectives are easier to achieve than the last ones.

Turn timer. 'Nuff said.

Reducing the number of turns would be very hard to get the balance right....

I think a kind word about ruining the others enjoyment maybe in order. Also, humming the jeopardy tune may help...(lol)

The turn timer seems to be a realistic and fair way to administer it as well. It may not have to be 'exactly' the time allotted, but just to keep the game moving.

Yes, I suppose a turn timer would be it.

I have mentioned the problems to the players. It's just that it's very hard to stop the momentum without some solid rule, when they feel compelled to play as well as they can.

I suppose if they end up feeling that they're suffering for not having enough time to plan, giving them a handicap would compensate.

I'd love to hear from anyone else who uses a turn timer, how exactly you use it, and how positive/negative the experience has been.

I'm assuming the timer would just be for the "talking/thinking" phase, not the entire turn itself. (Moving, shooting, fighting, etc. can take a while, and might be different every time.) Suggestions on what limit works well? What about limiting the Zombie player(s) turn? (Which I'm sure will be demanded.)

I just stopped playing with those players. That works for me, but your mileage may vary.

we have some gamers like that in our group.. the real strong willed ones.

usually in a 'work together' game like this we try to come up with an action plan that everyone agrees to via vote if needed..

timer helps long winded players..

soundguy

The ones in my group are just what I'd term over-enthusiastic. They get really into the game, especially the theme, and want to make sure they make the best decision possible in every minute situation. (And like I said, they tend to lose much of the time. Only more incentive for them to sweat the details.)

I didn't respond to the "stop playing with those players" comment before, but that's definitely harsh for me. These are friends I game with as a way to spend time, not the other way around.

(We haven't played again yet, by the way. We've taken a break since the last time, playing some other games.)

That sucks man. I think it truins the mood of the game (a game which strives towards creating a certain mood and atmosphere) when the players are in it to win only. When i play with my friends, we try to play in "the spirit of the game". For example, in one instance, Sally was being attacked by several grave dead zombies who could move d3 spaces. One of the other players playing Billy could have got away from the fight, but in his eyes, the character would more likely turn back and try to save her. In the end, both characters died, but they had fun with it. (note: we often have a few drinks while playing, so we end up acting out the scenes as we play the game. Yes, its as dorky as it sounds, but damn do we have a ball.)

TGChaplain Wrote:That sucks man. I think it truins the mood of the game (a game which strives towards creating a certain mood and atmosphere) when the players are in it to win only. When i play with my friends, we try to play in "the spirit of the game". For example, in one instance, Sally was being attacked by several grave dead zombies who could move d3 spaces. One of the other players playing Billy could have got away from the fight, but in his eyes, the character would more likely turn back and try to save her. In the end, both characters died, but they had fun with it. (note: we often have a few drinks while playing, so we end up acting out the scenes as we play the game. Yes, its as dorky as it sounds, but damn do we have a ball.)

yep.. it is more fun to do realistic play. while I like the zombies to win ( i play them ).. I don't use them like a black ops assault squad with superior tactics and radio communication.. I run them based on what they see. if there are 3 heros hiding in a house and one out in the open.. he's the target.. that's what they can see.

those power gamers that think everything out are usually the ones that have played star fleet battles...

soundguy

I've become the unofficial DM of our weekly games, except I still get to play. I tend to keep things running pretty quick. It's a zombie apocalypse, there's supposed to be chaos and panic. If the players need a reminder of just how insane it can get, sit them down for a round of L4D where stopping to plan or search overly long generally has horrible consequences.

Turn timers could be good, but you may just want to mutually decide on a person to dictate pacing. Seems to work for us. My buddy is an engineer and likes to think things through, but I spur him on to quicker decisions if it feels like it's dragging.