If the Zombie player plays a card with a Sacrifice, and the Hero player plays a Cancel on it (through Father Joseph, and Event Card, or any other means), does the Zombie player still have to make the Sacrifice? Does the cancel happen as soon as the card is laid down, or after the Sacrifice?
I've seen "our group plays this way" answers to this question that go both ways, so does anyone know if there is an "offical" ruling?
The way I see it, if it is being successfully canceled as it is played, then NONE of the effects on the card are activated. NONE of the effects!!!
If it is a remains in play card however, then one can assume that one did not cancel the card AS it was played but rather, .00008 seconds after that point, and whatever initial results occurred remain while any lingering effects never come to fruition.
The opinion on this is torn. Some believe that the sacrifice still happens if it's canceled. Others feel that it's not. I'm with the camp that it's not, by my reading of the rules
http://flyingfrogwiki.com/ffpwiki/index...._Sacrifice defines sacrifice
You must be able to make the sacrifice to play the card -- that is, have enough of whatever that you'd need to sacrifice it. But, as soon as the hero players defer long enough for the card to go through uncanceled and for the zombie player to start making the sacrifice, it's too late to cancel the card. I do, however, feel that random sacrifices (eg, "Sacrifice d6 zombies.") get rolled before the decision to cancel or not is made.
If you base it off other card games, sacrifice is a cost which means you have to sacrifice even if it's countered (Canceled). However, seeing as there is no real normal costs associated with playing cards... So it's hit or miss.
My initial ruling is that costs come before resolving. So you do sac and then find out awww
I'm in agreement with Orguss, the rules for Sacrifice state that to even play the card you have to pay the sacrifice: ""Risen From the Grave" the Sacrifice cost reads ‘Sacrifice: Remove 2 of your Zombies from anywhere on the board.’ This means that you must remove 2 of your Zombies and place them back in your Zombie Pool to play this card".
So alternatively you could house rule it that you could ask if the Hero players want to do anything as you announce that you are going to play a Sacrifice card. IF they do not act THEN pay the cost and put the card into affect.
"In addition, to play the card, you must be able to pay the Sacrifice cost listed."
ABLE and DO are two separate things. I personally hate sacrificing 2 cards for an effect and having it canceled. I'm now down LITERALLY 3 cards.
Orguss: I'm of the camp that you do NOT pay the sacrifice cost unless the card goes through.
The thing I would like to add here is the COST Father Joseph has to pay to try to cancel a card:
Zombie plays Sacrifice card and removes Z's to play card
Hero uses Father Joe's Strength of Spirit to try to cancel Sacrifice card
Now, if he succeeds people are saying that the Z player should get back his zeds, so conversely shouldn't Father Joe get his wound back if he fails??
The ruling for Strength of Spirit says no - pay the cost, make the attempt, tough titty if you fail!
Shouldn't the Sacrifice card be ruled the same way?? Pay the cost, play the card, tough titty if it gets cancelled.
I think so.
You have to PAY the sacrfice to PLAY the card, Father Joseph has to PAY the wound to PLAY Strength of Spirit.
Anything that happens afterwards, cancelling, failure is only on the PLAYING not the COST.
A bit more to my last post.
Looking at the FFP wiki in regard to Strength of Spirit:
Quote:Q11: How does Father Joseph’s Strength of Spirit ability work?
A11: Strength of Spirit may be used at any time to attempt to Cancel a Zombie Card being played or that ‘Remains in Play’. Father Joseph first takes a wound and then rolls to cancel the Zombie Card on the roll of 3+. He may use this ability even if doing so will take his last wound, killing him (you are still allowed to roll to see if the card is cancelled). He may also use this ability multiple times to try and cancel the same card (assuming he failed the first time by rolling a 1 or 2).
He may even use this ability during a Fight. This is especially useful if he is about to lose a Fight and take his last wound. He may instead, voluntarily take his last wound to try and cancel an existing Zombie Card (sort of a ‘with his last breath’ notion).
and Sacrifice rules:
Quote:Zombie Cards with a Sacrifice cost (listed in the grey bar) may only be played at the Start of the Zombie Turn. In addition, to play the card, you must be able to pay the Sacrifice cost listed. On the card, "No...It can't be!", the Sacrifice cost reads ‘Sacrifice: Remove 4 of your Zombies from anywhere on the board.’ This means that you must remove 4 of your Zombies and place them back in your Zombie Pool to play this card.
"Risen From the Grave" the Sacrifice cost reads ‘Sacrifice: Remove 2 of your Zombies from anywhere on the board.’ This means that you must remove 2 of your Zombies and place them back in your Zombie Pool to play this card.
The highlighted red bits are the important parts -
The Zombie Player must first PAY the sacrifice and then PLAY the card, at which point you can attempt to cancel it, not as the sacrifice is being paid. So if it is successfully cancelled you don't get your zombies back. Sorry!
ZombieJ has it right, IMO. Sac to play, and if it's countered, you knew the price to begin with. All about risk vs. reward.