Question #1
Tonight, while I was playing as the Zombies, I used the Infected card to put an Infected Marker on Ed Baker and then randomly selected Ed Baker when I played the Secretly Bitten Zombie Upgrade. Because he had thus accumulated two Infected Markers, he automatically became a Zombie Hero. My question is whether I then get one experience for each of the three remaining health boxes he had. Interestingly, the rules don't specify that a Hero that becomes a Zombie Hero in this way is "Killed" or otherwise receives any wounds in the process, so it seems that I don't get any experience at all for it?
Question #2
I am also certain that the answer to this question is "No", but I'll ask anyway. If a Hero or Zombie is "Killed" and thus has their remaining health boxes filled with wound markers, can cards or effects that prevent or cancel wounds (example: Just A Scratch or Rachelle's Intuition) thus prevent that entity from actually dying? Or is it intended that "Killed" would simply then wound that health box again?
Question #3
On the subject of upgrades, I understand that if a Hero gets an upgrade that matches an ability that they already have, then they simply automatically get the Boost for that upgrade. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to include Rachelle's Intuition and the Shrug It Off upgrade or Nikki and the Hold 'em Off upgrade. Now, it could certainly be argued that, in the case of Rachelle and Shrug It Off, she gets to roll two D6, one for each of the abilities, every time she takes a wound, and that would be great, but is that what's intended? And in the case of Nikki and Hold 'em Off, the upgrade is completely useless to her, so would it be unreasonable to house rule that she get the boost automatically?
EDIT: Bonus Questions now that I'm thinking more...
When an Infected Marker causes a Hero to take an additional wound, do the Zombies get an experience for that? Or does it depend on the source of the initial triggering wound? Like, if the Infected Marker does grant Zombies experience if it activated when a Zombie delivers a wound to a Hero in a Fight, does it also grant Zombies experience if it activated when a Hero took damage from an ability like Strength of Spirit or from a Fire? Does it matter whether that Fire was one that the Zombies just started or the Heroes just started?
Speaking of Fires, I guess I also have a question about the other side of that. Do Heroes get experience for damage that Zombies take from a Fire that they deliberately started? For example, if a Hero places a bunch of gas markers in a line and then uses a fire item to start a fire in a space adjacent to the gas marker, causing the gas markers to blow up in sequence, the Hero still gets experience for the Zombies killed in the indirect explosions because those were still deliberate, right? Well, what about when the Hero does that and the uncontrolled Fires that spread from the gasoline explosions also end up killing Zombies? Do they get experience for those as well?
Finally, does having two of the same Hero Upgrade still allow you to use both of them individually? Or are you unable to have the same named ability more than once? The rules say that you automatically get the boost, but they they don't say whether you still get the effect itself. For some features, such as Tough or Reload, it would be useless to have it twice, but for others, such as Combat Prowess or First Aid, the benefit could believably stack. I'm assuming the intention is that a character cannot have the same named ability more than once, but it'd be nice to get official clarification on this.
First off, samuraitrev will most likely have the answer for this, I think there was a question like this before and he had a cited answer for it. I just can't find the post. Questions one and two seem to revolve around the same issue it looks like (if I'm understanding them correctly). Death of any hero no matter how it happens always counts for the zombies as I understand. Now there is wording on some cards that will say "instantly killed" (I think the chainsaw is one) and I'm sure death of the creature is resolved before the wound is actually applied if that makes sense. Now I'm not trying to give an answer here, I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding stuff, I really like these questions cause I haven't put the experience stuff in my games yet. I also tend to think of some of the card drop mechanics in this game like resolving the stack in MTG, it's just what I'm familiar with.
(04-02-2013 06:46 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote: [ -> ]Question #1
Tonight, while I was playing as the Zombies, I used the Infected card to put an Infected Marker on Ed Baker and then randomly selected Ed Baker when I played the Secretly Bitten Zombie Upgrade. Because he had thus accumulated two Infected Markers, he automatically became a Zombie Hero. My question is whether I then get one experience for each of the three remaining health boxes he had. Interestingly, the rules don't specify that a Hero that becomes a Zombie Hero in this way is "Killed" or otherwise receives any wounds in the process, so it seems that I don't get any experience at all for it?
Answer #1
I am unsure of the wording of the infected card but off the top of my head it seems when you take a wound you roll a die to see if you take an additional wound. Since you didn't cause any additional wounds and the heroes death was conditional of the two infected markers (which you already collected 2 experience for) you
WOULDN'T collect for causing additional wounds since you didn't cause any. However, if you were to play a card that "Killed" a hero you would collect experience for all health boxes being filled. The same goes for when a hero "kills" a zombie hero such as with the cleaver filling up all remaining health boxes you
WOULD collect experience for that.
(04-02-2013 06:46 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote: [ -> ]Question #2
I am also certain that the answer to this question is "No", but I'll ask anyway. If a Hero or Zombie is "Killed" and thus has their remaining health boxes filled with wound markers, can cards or effects that prevent or cancel wounds (example: Just A Scratch or Rachelle's Intuition) thus prevent that entity from actually dying? Or is it intended that "Killed" would simply then wound that health box again?
No, you cannot prevent a Hero or Zombie from being "Killed" atleast no cards to my knowledge have come out yet that would allow this. Most out only prevent wounds but being "Killed" is essentially filling up all health boxes and removing from the board or becoming a zombie hero.
(04-02-2013 06:46 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote: [ -> ]Question #3
On the subject of upgrades, I understand that if a Hero gets an upgrade that matches an ability that they already have, then they simply automatically get the Boost for that upgrade. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to include Rachelle's Intuition and the Shrug It Off upgrade or Nikki and the Hold 'em Off upgrade. Now, it could certainly be argued that, in the case of Rachelle and Shrug It Off, she gets to roll two D6, one for each of the abilities, every time she takes a wound, and that would be great, but is that what's intended? And in the case of Nikki and Hold 'em Off, the upgrade is completely useless to her, so would it be unreasonable to house rule that she get the boost automatically?
This seems that in the case of Rachelle you could in fact stack the abilities. However, I have never come across this in a game and in the case of Nikki I do not see any reason why you couldn't house rule on this but the way we play it is that you gamble by taking a upgrade from a certain pile (ranged, melee, special) and if you got an upgrade that was completely useless well you gambled and lost...which would mean next time make a better decision. We rule it this way so that one hero has to think really hard if they want to gamble and beef up on ALL ranged upgrades of if it would be more beneficial to be a "Jack of all Trades" and take the upgrades from multiple piles.
(04-02-2013 06:46 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: Bonus Questions now that I'm thinking more...
When an Infected Marker causes a Hero to take an additional wound, do the Zombies get an experience for that? Or does it depend on the source of the initial triggering wound? Like, if the Infected Marker does grant Zombies experience if it activated when a Zombie delivers a wound to a Hero in a Fight, does it also grant Zombies experience if it activated when a Hero took damage from an ability like Strength of Spirit or from a Fire? Does it matter whether that Fire was one that the Zombies just started or the Heroes just started?
You ONLY get experience for wounds that you cause. If the hero causes a wound to themselves you do not get experience for this. However speaking of the infected marker if it causes an additional wound you would claim experience since you in fact caused the wound. This also goes for fires if a zombie dies from a fire the heroes do not get experience and vice versa if the hero died from a fire the zombies do not get experience cause you didnt cause that wound.
(04-02-2013 06:46 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote: [ -> ]Speaking of Fires, I guess I also have a question about the other side of that. Do Heroes get experience for damage that Zombies take from a Fire that they deliberately started? For example, if a Hero places a bunch of gas markers in a line and then uses a fire item to start a fire in a space adjacent to the gas marker, causing the gas markers to blow up in sequence, the Hero still gets experience for the Zombies killed in the indirect explosions because those were still deliberate, right? Well, what about when the Hero does that and the uncontrolled Fires that spread from the gasoline explosions also end up killing Zombies? Do they get experience for those as well?
The hero would get experience for the gas marker blowing up killing zombies cause the hero caused the wounds via the gasoline. However like I said fire alone does not warrant experience to either party. Just remember if the wound causes is a direct response to something either the zombies or heroes did it warrants experience tokens. However effects either from self infliction both on heroes or from sacrificing zombies do not warrant experience since no one caused the wound to the other. Remember the game is zombies vs heroes. But its also zombies vs heroes vs the board and sometimes the board gets the experience
.
(04-02-2013 06:46 AM)Twilight_Sonata Wrote: [ -> ]Finally, does having two of the same Hero Upgrade still allow you to use both of them individually? Or are you unable to have the same named ability more than once? The rules say that you automatically get the boost, but they they don't say whether you still get the effect itself. For some features, such as Tough or Reload, it would be useless to have it twice, but for others, such as Combat Prowess or First Aid, the benefit could believably stack. I'm assuming the intention is that a character cannot have the same named ability more than once, but it'd be nice to get official clarification on this.
If you get the same upgrade ability all you get is the boost for the one you already had. If you already had the boost on one of the cards you do not get to stack the abilties in any way. This like I said above can be a gamble on which pile you choose to draw from cause alot of the time to boost isnt as good as a different upgrade. You can houserule anyway you like if you wanted the hero to just draw another but we play that if this happens you would of gambled and lost losing all the experience and getting no upgrades. Just remember sometimes its awesome to have a hero that has all ranged upgrades but other times it bites you in the ass.
In the end do what your group likes there is no rule against house ruling so do what feels right for your gang.
I almost forgot....Welcome to TIMBER PEAK!!! MWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Thanks for the reply! I definitely disagree with the whole gambling aspect of the Hero upgrades, so my group definitely won't be doing it like that if I have anything to say about it.
Quote:Since you didn't cause any additional wounds and the heroes death was conditional of the two infected markers (which you already collected 2 experience for) you WOULDN'T collect for causing additional wounds since you didn't cause any.
This seems like kind of a grey area. How can a Hero possibly become a Zombie Hero without dying? And if their death was clearly a direct result of the Zombies' actions... It seems like this is a real oversight in terms of the rule wording more than anything else.
Quote:You ONLY get experience for wounds that you cause.
Yeah, I get that, but "that you cause" is pretty vague terminology. Even "that you
directly cause" isn't much better. I know that the Zombies would not get experience for wounds caused by, for example, Strength of Spirit or a Fire that the Heroes just started, but that question was about the wound caused by the Infected Marker itself, whether the Zombies would get experience for that wound specifically or whether it would depend on the source of the wound that initially triggered the roll for the Infected Marker. For example, if a Hero used Strength of Spirit and then the Infected Marker caused an additional wound, I know that the Zombie would not get experience for the wound caused by Strength of Spirit, but what I'm asking about if whether they would gain experience for the additional wound caused by the Infected Marker, whether that wound would count as self-inflicted or not because it was caused by a self-inflicted wound.
Quote:If a zombie dies from a fire the heroes do not get experience and vice versa if the hero died from a fire the zombies do not get experience cause you didnt cause that wound.
See, that just doesn't sound right at all. Are you saying that if a Hero discards a Fire item to start a Fire in an adjacent space with Zombies in it specifically for the purpose of setting those Zombies on fire and wounding them, the Hero
wouldn't get any experience for that because the wounds were caused by a fire? But if that exact same fire blew up an adjacent gasoline marker, the Zombies wounded by that
would grant experience? No, that doesn't sound right at all. There
must be instances where fire damage does count towards experience for the Heroes or Zombies. Otherwise simply wouldn't make any sense.
I understand that fire
alone doesn't grant either side experience, but there must be some distinction between when it does and when it doesn't. When the Zombies play the Fire! card and use it to start a Fire in a space with a Hero, that should definitely count as Zombie experience. If the Hero decides on their turn to stay in the Fire thus caused and thus take another wound, though, that shouldn't count as Zombie experience. What I'm looking for is to try to figure out when the distinctions are, because there must be some.
Quote:The hero would get experience for the gas marker blowing up killing zombies cause the hero caused the wounds via the gasoline.
That's just the thing, though. In the scenario I mentioned, the gasoline blowing up, though certainly intentional and deliberate, was even less direct than the starting of a Fire in an adjacent space. What about the other way around? What if the Heroes put down a gasoline marker somewhere and fail to ignite it and then the Zombies come along and start a Fire that blows up the gasoline and catches Heroes in the blast? Do the Zombies then get experience for the wounds caused by the gasoline explosion that they deliberately caused with their Fire?
So, the hero death counts towards the the win condition for the zombies of 4 heros dying no matter what. So the hero lights a cigarette forgetting the stick of dynamite in this hand while he is sitting on a barrel of gasoline and blows up he still gets counted for the zombies. Now the zombie player had to play a card directly against the hero player to get him infected and his death eventually occurs from that action, same as a gas marker exploding because a hero placed it I would think..
Twilight I will see what I can find quoted from Jason C Hill but it won't be til tomorrow ill get back with more info ASAP
"I am also certain that the answer to this question is "No", but I'll ask anyway. If a Hero or Zombie is "Killed" and thus has their remaining health boxes filled with wound markers, can cards or effects that prevent or cancel wounds (example: Just A Scratch or Rachelle's Intuition) thus prevent that entity from actually dying? Or is it intended that "Killed" would simply then wound that health box again?"
YES. Preventing wounds prevents the death. This is a regular argument we have, however.
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/4323737#4323737
http://boardgamegeek.com/article/2211590#2211590
I see now that
Quote:'Killed' (with a capital 'K') means to assign a finite number of wounds to the target which is equal to the number of health boxes the target currently has remaining at that moment.
So therefore preventing just one wound would prevent the death of the hero.
Page 20 of the TP Rulebook. The last paragraph of the "Gaining Experience" section states that zombie walking into a fire does not grant experience. Also on page 21, there is a section on infection, the way it reads its like you get a wound from the zombie which yields exp for the zed and after the chance roll if you fail the roll you get another wound from the marker not the zombie so no exp should be gained.
Thanks fiskers that's what I thought