So we played this scenario for the first time last night; I was a Zombie player along with a newbie friend and we were doing well up until the point that the Hero players discovered there were only 3 gasoline cards in the Hero Deck. We didn't have internet access, so I couldn't check how many cards should be in the deck. But I saw the objective was to douse then torch 4 Zombie Spawning Pits in the middle of the manor, and it would be nigh impossible to do so without a 4th gasoline card.
So we figured this must have been a mistake, and removed one Zombie pit.. which triggered a series of events which led to a decisive Hero victory. Now that I know there are only 3 gasoline cards.. how would a the Heroes win this scenario? Hope for "Just what I needed" or "I found it!" all day? We didn't have the gas station on our game board.
Also had a bit of a rules scuffle. I played "This may be our last night on earth" on Jenny and Sam (yuck) at the beginning of one of the Heroes turns. They sought to use Father Joseph to cancel the card, but he already maximized his Wounds. However, they felt they could first have Becky take her turn, search, shoot a zombie, then heal Father Joseph, which then allowed him to cancel my LNoE card. This didn't sound right at all to me, if he wasn't readily available to cancel the card when I played it (not being a Remains in Play card) I did not feel he should be able to go through the other Heroes' turns first.
Your thoughts please!
No you are right Spartan. If Father Joseph was not able to fend off the card at that moment then the card stands. I would agree that it could have been done the way the players were going to do it if it was A Remains in Play card.
Ryuk Wrote:I understand your reasoning (and Canadian Pittbull's) with Father Joe's ability and how "This Could Be Our Last Night On Earth" does not say 'Remains In Play' but I feel it kind of does Remain In Play.. for one Turn. Let's say in your example that Father Joe does not have any wounds. I don't see anything wrong with Becky taking her turn then Father Joe using his ability next on his turn to attempt to save Sweet Jenny from falling for the sweet talking of Cigar Breath Sam. I mean, Holy Crap.. she's hot. And Amanda?!... OMG!.. I mean, Come on!...
ah, but I digest....
I don't see any difference in Becky going first or Father Joseph going first.
I too, would like comments on my reasoning...
Only problem with this is I thought that when the card is played the Zombie Player gives the opponent a chance to counter the card. If that is the case then it would have to be right then. Therefore if Father Joseph was able to stop the card with is ability you would have to use him first. The card is not a Remains in play card as its effects are instant. From the way the card reads if Becky was to go first then Father Joseph is unable to use his ability then Sam would lose his turn as does Jenny. The card is then discarded. Father Joseph would HAVE to stop that card in that instant else Sam and Jenny lose their turns.
Am I wrong in this interpretation?
Canadian Pittbull Wrote:Ryuk Wrote:I understand your reasoning (and Canadian Pittbull's) with Father Joe's ability and how "This Could Be Our Last Night On Earth" does not say 'Remains In Play' but I feel it kind of does Remain In Play.. for one Turn. Let's say in your example that Father Joe does not have any wounds. I don't see anything wrong with Becky taking her turn then Father Joe using his ability next on his turn to attempt to save Sweet Jenny from falling for the sweet talking of Cigar Breath Sam. I mean, Holy Crap.. she's hot. And Amanda?!... OMG!.. I mean, Come on!...
ah, but I digest....
I don't see any difference in Becky going first or Father Joseph going first.
I too, would like comments on my reasoning...
Only problem with this is I thought that when the card is played the Zombie Player gives the opponent a chance to counter the card. If that is the case then it would have to be right then. Therefore if Father Joseph was able to stop the card with is ability you would have to use him first. The card is not a Remains in play card as its effects are instant. From the way the card reads if Becky was to go first then Father Joseph is unable to use his ability then Sam would lose his turn as does Jenny. The card is then discarded. Father Joseph would HAVE to stop that card in that instant else Sam and Jenny lose their turns.
Am I wrong in this interpretation?
That's how I see it. The way I interpret the rules is a card's either an "instant" event or "remains in play" event; if they can't cancel an instant the moment it's played, then its effect(/s) go down in stone.
The other thing to remember is that the "This could be our last night..." card states "Play at the start of the Hero Turn to...". This means it is played right at the start of the turn before any of the Heroes has a go, so therefore the only way to cancel it would be to have a Hero Event card that states "Cancel any Zombie Card" etc.
I agree with Ryuk on the Burn 'Em Out question.
If you play to Burn the pits and you have no problems (well, apart from finding a Gasoline Card or a JWIN/IFI card of course). Remember the more pits you destroy the less places the Z's have to come from.
Can't find an official answer to this specific question anywhere but here is a general official ruling of the Father's ability from Jason Hill posted on BGG:
Quote:As worded, Father Joseph must take a wound and then roll. This makes it dangerous (and exciting).
There is no limit to the number of times he can use the ability (he just takes a wound for each attempt). He can even use the ability if the wound will kill him (he still gets to roll to cancel the Zombie card). Father Joseph can even use his Strength of Spirit if he has one wound left, is in a Fight, and currently losing (which is going to kill him when the Fight is resolved). He can pre-emptively take a wound to try to cancel a card on the way out (sort of a, "with my last breath..." kind of thing).
He can use the ability on ANY Zombie card (even ones that are 'Remains in Play'). And yes, Father Joseph and Becky are a great combo!
For Spartan's example, the Zombies would play the "This could be" making Sam & Jenny. The Father then has the chance to sacrifice himself to cancel the card. As Ryuk states Becky could not heal the Father first because her healing ability is only effective at the end of the complete Hero Turn.
See that is where I think your having the problem Ryuk. Instant Cards are different that Remains in play. So keeping the card out to remember is find but remember that the difference is if you don't cancel them/counter them at the time they are played (or before dice are rolled if in the case of combat) then the opponents are affected.
Remains in Play cards are cards that are going to affect game play continuously until the game is over or until they to are canceled. With the way you are interpreting and playing them are like there are Remains in Play cards and Kinda Remains in Play cards which goes against the mechanics of the game.
Quote:"Let's Split Up"- Play at the start of a Hero Turn. Until the end of the turn, any Hero that ends their Move Action in the same space or building as another Hero immediately takes a wound.
This card does not say 'Remains in Play'. But if the third Hero taking their turn searches and finds an Event card that says, 'Immediately cancel any Zombie Card'... wouldn't that Hero be able to cancel LSU even though it doesn't say 'Remains in Play', thus cancelling the effects for the fourth player? That's how we play.
Sorry but no it doesn't. Again this is played at the start of the Hero turn and quoting Zombie
Quote:"Play at the start of the Hero Turn to...". This means it is played right at the start of the turn before any of the Heroes has a go, so therefore the only way to cancel it would be to have a Hero Event card that states "Cancel any Zombie Card" etc.
The third hero cannot cancel it later it HAS to be when the card is played hence why that card is considered an instant.
So if a player doesn't have a card/ability to cancel said card then is takes effect thus the player would instantly take damage if they end their movement in the same square as another player. That is the whole part of the strategy when using and playing cards. If your able to cancel them whenever then what is the point of having the different card types then?
Quote:"This Could Be Our Last Night On Earth" and the very similar cards 'Bickering' and 'Catfight' causes two (or more with Bickering) Heroes to lose their turn. Because the Heroes may take their turn in any order they choose, can the two Heroes that lose their turn take the third and fourth position? If Father Joe is one of the other two, couldn't he go second and let the other Hero go first to try to search for a 'Cancel any Zombie Card' to try to cancel that card so that he doesn't have to take a wound (or can't or it will kill him)? If the first Hero is unsuccessful, could he then take the wound to try to 'cancel any Zombie Card' thus freeing the last two Heroes from the card's 'Lose their Turn' effect? It seems like this should be allowed since Heroes may take their turn in any order they choose.
No. That is the whole point and strategy of the card is to make the Heroes lose their turn to make any ground or do anything. One of the advantages of Heroes being able to choose the order in which they go is for just this reason. So that if someone has a card or ability that can stop an instant card from being played and slowing the Heroes down. The card is an instant and is played before the Heroes turn therefore once it is in play and it is not countered it takes effect and said players miss their turn.
The way you guys are playing are against the rules as they are intended and of course will see very different game play/results.
And Zombie beat me to adding that Father Joseph could sacrifice himself if need be to stop a particularly dangerous card from coming into play.
I think between you, Ryuk & CP, you have hit on a good point above.
There are really 3 types of cards in regard to effect length (and here is how I view the cancelling of them):
Instant - These need to be cancelled straight away to avoid the effects. (This in my mind includes any that make the Heroes Miss a Turn!)
1 Round or Turn etc - The effects are temporary but whilst the effects are in play the card can be cancelled.
Remains in Play - The effects are permanent until the card is cancelled in anyway.
Everybody agree??
No, Ryuk, what you have to do is just agree on the House Rules. If your group think your way is right, play it.
Kath & I agreed today to play the "Get Back You Devils" card in regard to a Zombie Hero (as per your question) as just causing a hit rather than killing the ZH, even though as mqstout the rules state otherwise.
As long as you all agree before hand you can do as you want.