Zombie Turn Phase 3 is roll to see if you can spawn new zombies. Do zombie champions count toward the total number of zombies on the board when testing this?
Zombie Heroes count toward this total. I can't remember if Grave Dead do, as well. If Grave Dead do NOT, then I would expect Champions not to, either.
ZC are in addition - so do not count for the 14 zombie limit.
I would reason that like Grave Dead and Zombie Heroes, Champions are are still counted when rolling a Spawn Check. Even though the Zombie is not part of the regular Pool they are all included in the count on the board.
Here's a quote from Jason (BGG 5/20/08):
"On the actual board, all Zombies only count as a single model ( for rolling to Spawn etc.) Just count up the number of actual models (be they normal, Grave Dead, Zombie Heroes etc)."
(03-01-2014 04:31 PM)ATOEtalGeek Wrote: [ -> ]I would reason that like Grave Dead and Zombie Heroes, Champions are are still counted when rolling a Spawn Check. Even though the Zombie is not part of the regular Pool they are all included in the count on the board.
Here's a quote from Jason (BGG 5/20/08):
"On the actual board, all Zombies only count as a single model (for rolling to Spawn etc.) Just count up the number of actual models (be they normal, Grave Dead, Zombie Heroes etc)."
I hadn't seen that quote before but I wonder whether ZC are an exception to this 2008 rule? ZC are referenced as "additional" in the BitF rule book but the 14 model max does seem to be a LNOE fundamental.
No wonder the heroes have been having a hard time in the BitF scenarios.
(03-01-2014 04:31 PM)ATOEtalGeek Wrote: [ -> ]I would reason that like Grave Dead and Zombie Heroes, Champions are are still counted when rolling a Spawn Check. Even though the Zombie is not part of the regular Pool they are all included in the count on the board.
Here's a quote from Jason (BGG 5/20/08):
"On the actual board, all Zombies only count as a single model (for rolling to Spawn etc.) Just count up the number of actual models (be they normal, Grave Dead, Zombie Heroes etc)."
This makes sense to me, I agree that champions should be counted when rolling to check for spawn.
(03-02-2014 09:34 PM)Achtung Panzer Wrote: [ -> ]I hadn't seen that quote before but I wonder whether ZC are an exception to this 2008 rule? ZC are referenced as "additional" in the BitF rule book but the 14 model max does seem to be a LNOE fundamental.
I think you're confusing the size of the zombie pool with the phase 3 roll to check for spawn. In phase 3, if there are 12 or more zombies on the board, the zombie player will not get to spawn that turn in phase 6.
There is no such thing as a "14 model max". It's possible to have all 14 zombies on the board, 3 zombie champions, and a bunch of grave dead at the same time, in normal scenarios from Growing Hunger. This is because of the variety of zombie cards that put models on the board without regard to how many are already there.
I think you're right Sappington, though you do remove a zombie model from the 14 model starting pool and replace with ZH when a hero is killed.
(03-03-2014 09:31 AM)Achtung Panzer Wrote: [ -> ]I think you're right Sappington, though you do remove a zombie model from the 14 model starting pool and replace with ZH when a hero is killed.
Eh, what? Where did you get this one? I haven't seen this one before.
Base rules p.19 under Zombie Heroes: "Zombie Heroes DO count when determining how many zombies you have on the board".
I've always taken this to mean they count towards the 14 zombie pool for spawning purposes but now you've got me thinking! I thought you were limited to max 14 zombies / ZH on the board. So, should I play that:
1) No need to roll for zombie spawn if you have 12+ zombie / ZH on the board
2) Zombies, ZH, ZC and GDZ are unlimited in number if you can spawn / place them
(03-03-2014 04:06 PM)Achtung Panzer Wrote: [ -> ]Base rules p.19 under Zombie Heroes: "Zombie Heroes DO count when determining how many zombies you have on the board".
I've always taken this to mean they count towards the 14 zombie pool for spawning purposes but now you've got me thinking! I thought you were limited to max 14 zombies / ZH on the board. So, should I play that:
1) No need to roll for zombie spawn if you have 12+ zombie / ZH on the board
2) Zombies, ZH, ZC and GDZ are unlimited in number if you can spawn / place them
No where in the rules does it say you can only have 14 zombies on the board, period.
For #2, there are exceptions, like Grave Dead are supposed to be one-use only by default (removed from game after they are killed), and zombie champions are also often limited, so for many scenarios there is a theoretical limit. For BitF scenarios that say you get unlimited zombie champions, however, then the number of zombies allowed on the board is theoretically unlimited, unless you want to bound it by the number of models available in your gaming supplies.
(03-03-2014 09:31 AM)Achtung Panzer Wrote: [ -> ]...though you do remove a zombie model from the 14 model starting pool and replace with ZH when a hero is killed.
Achtung, I don't think this is right. Do you know where it says this? I believe ZH are in addition to the starting Pool of 14.