Deck Building

[PittedPanda]

So I've only gotten a chance to play this game twice and have spend most of my LNoE related time painting and reading on this forum.

However, I see an elephant in the room.

Many on this forum complain of deck size, luck factor, splitting decks, etc.

It seems to me, especially with the general trend in gaming at hand, that this game is begging for a deck construction/building element.

I propose a rule element in which:
1a) The Zombie Deck must be comprised of 40 cards of the ZP's selection.
1a) The Zombie Players hand is restricted to 3 cards. This is to balance for the now focused zombie onslaught.

2a) The Hero Deck must be comprised of 40 cards of the HPs' selection.
2b) It is important the Heroes choose to include scenario items.
2c) The deck is shuffled and 10 cards are placed on each corner. When a player searches, they draw from the Hero Deck attached to the L-Tile in question.
2d) 8 Survival Tactics and 8 Unique Items are selected and shuffled with two of each on each L-Tile. They are drawn upon as usual.
2e) All cards are discarded into the same central discard pile.
2f) When a hero dies his figure is place on its side and his items are discarded as usual. Players should make note of what items were discarded. Heroes can now make a search action on the dead players corpse and retrieve one dropped item from the discard pile. The hero's body is then removed from the game.


Let me know what ya'll think.

[argailwall]

i like the idea of deck building, especially when the cards become lot more

but this rule can only be applied to veterans of the game,knowing the cards and how usefull they are

[scarydk]

(06-19-2012 08:51 AM)argailwall Wrote:  i like the idea of deck building, especially when the cards become lot more

but this rule can only be applied to veterans of the game,knowing the cards and how usefull they are

Right. You need to find a way to balance the decks.

[mqstout]

I'd go 20 of team's choice, 10 of opposing-team's choice, 10 random from those remaining. To keep it interesting. Otherwise, you'd never, ever see some of the fun-but-weaker cards like the "Catfight".

Personally, I just use the entire of both decks with all promos/expansions. I like the variance.

[StayPuft]

I kind of have mixed feelings when it comes to this. I feel that when you start with just the base game, it is fine (and probably best) to just use the decks as is. The problem is when you start to get all the expansions/supplements/etc. Then, the decks do start to get bigger and bigger.

However, on the one hand, I like the idea that the decks become more and more varied. I like the randomness of the fact that you aren't sure what cards you will get. Using a method like this would remove that to some degree because you know that you can only get certain cards, and can't get others.

Though, it does definitely address the possible issue of the deck getting too big. I had honestly wondered if this might ever become a problem, particularly for scenarios where you need to find a few specific items. It would certainly make it much harder to find the items amongst a much bigger deck.

So, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the idea of deck building vs. just using the whole thing. Though, I think you've definitely got a good idea of how to do it, if you so choose. I also think it is a nice addition to the idea to split the card choices up so that you pick some of your cards, your opponent picks some of yours, and then you draw some at random as well. I think, if you are going to build a deck, that is a great way to do it.

[PittedPanda]

Oh I also forgot to mention an inherent balancing mechanism. Of course exhausting a deck does not result is a loss. I would say loss is not possible this way unless playing the "Pillaging Dead" scenario with a separate pillage/town deck.

By having only 10 items/events at each tile we are forcing the players to run around, making them more vulnerable. I think this balances the fact that surely there will be plenty of shotguns and chainsaws.

In response to mqstout, I like were your going with your idea but I really don't like the idea of zombies choosing cards. This would probably slow the set up to a near halt. I do like the idea of random cards.

Perhaps something like this:

ZP: Zombie Deck Construction [ * * * * * ]
The Zombie Deck must be comprised of 30 cards of the ZP's selection. Ten additional random cards are then added to the Zombie Deck. The ZP may not look at these cards as they are shuffled in. The Zombie Deck is drawn on and reshuffled normally.

ZP: Zombie Auditors [ 2X ]
At the beginning of a game which uses "Hero Deck Construction" the ZP may choose X amount of decks to audit. From each of these decks he/she may remove any one card from play. This card may be keepen secret from the players. Scenario card cannot be audited.

HP: Stupid Zombies [ * * * ]
The Zombie Players hand is restricted to 3 cards. This is to balance for the now focused zombie onslaught. The Zombie player can still draw up to this many cards each turn and discard a card as usual.

HP: Hero Deck Construction [ * * * * ]
The Hero Deck must be comprised of 30 cards of the HPs' selection; they should include scenario items. Ten additional random cards are then added to the Hero Deck. The HPs may not look at these cards as they are shuffled in. Ten cards are placed on each corner randomly. When a player searches, they draw from the Hero Deck attached to the L-Tile in question. All cards are discarded into the same central discard pile. Cards which search the deck must search a tile on which there is a hero.
If survival decks are used they are split into 5 of each and placed at the bottom of each Hero Deck. All ten hero cards must be drawn from a L-tile before the Survival Tactics and Unique Weapons can be discovered. They are then drawn as regular search rewards. (No die roll necessary)
If playing with Hero Starting Pool or Hero Starting Cards these cards are drawn equally from each of the ten decks. Thus, a second card can only be drawn from once all four decks have had their first card drawn, etc. This happens after the Zombie Audit if applicable. If a scenario item is drawn, the player draws another card, finishes drawing starting cards, and then reshuffle and split the decks.

HP: Survival Construction [ * ] [Must also be using "Survival Decks" Rules]
8 Survival Tactics and 8 Unique Items are selected and shuffled with two of each on each L-Tile. They are drawn upon as usual.

HP/ZP (Both must agree): Hes got the keys! [ 0 ]
When a hero dies his figure is place on its side and his items are discarded as usual. Players should make note of what items were discarded. Heroes can now make a search action on the dead players corpse and retrieve one dropped item from the discard pile. The hero's body is then removed from the game. If the hero becomes a Zombie Hero, he must first be killed.
However, if the hero/zombie hero dies via explosion or burning then all non-scenario items are permanently removed from play..

Note that a timer should be set for 10 minutes when using these rules. After the timer beeps the game starts with whatever cards have been selected. Hurry up!

If you all could help me balance the dots and tweak these rules I would greatly appreciate it.

[Emp]

I own every expansion for the game and played numerous times with all the cards. And not once have I had a complaint from a fellow gamer or experienced myself that the stack gets to big.

I don't think there is a need for this deckbuilding thing to creep into this game. In my opinion it would drag the set-up time out even longer. Because you need to build a new deck every scenario due to scenario search items.
And you would also almost every time encounter the most powercull cards. I just like the entire "shit happens" in this game. You never know what you will find and that makes it interesting because you have to make split second desisions and you can not rely on "oh I got this card coming...goody goody..."

[HikariStarshine]

I'm less worried about paring down my decks and more about just keeping the stacks in place. I have sleeved cards (damn you, full-bleed black!) so I mostly just need to get around to making some little card holder boxes out of foamcore or something.

That said, I'd be all for finding a way to have a *fair* deck-construction mechanic. I wouldn't limit the heroes to 40 cards, though; that's introducing *far* too much risk of a deck-grind tactic for the zed player potentially causing a hero loss in the first three turns.

[StayPuft]

(06-20-2012 07:42 AM)Emp Wrote:  I own every expansion for the game and played numerous times with all the cards. And not once have I had a complaint from a fellow gamer or experienced myself that the stack gets to big.

I don't think there is a need for this deckbuilding thing to creep into this game. In my opinion it would drag the set-up time out even longer. Because you need to build a new deck every scenario due to scenario search items.
And you would also almost every time encounter the most powercull cards. I just like the entire "shit happens" in this game. You never know what you will find and that makes it interesting because you have to make split second desisions and you can not rely on "oh I got this card coming...goody goody..."

Exactly. This is kind of how I feel about it. I like the idea that you can wind up getting any card at any time. With deck building, of course each player is going to pick all of their best cards, so a lot of cards will wind up never getting play, in favor of seeing the same cards all the time.

I also kind of like the idea that you are never sure if help is coming. You can get nothing but cards that won't help you and be SOL, or suddenly find just the card you need.

So, Emp, since you own all the expansions...

Have you ever counted? How many cards does each deck have in total now?

[Emp]

(06-20-2012 08:30 PM)StayPuft Wrote:  So, Emp, since you own all the expansions...

Have you ever counted? How many cards does each deck have in total now?

Nope, never counted them
But will do so later.