True horror

[kinkomaster]

You know, guys, I really love this game, but it needs just that little something more! The game is more strategy than it is horror, and while there should be a lot of strategy... since you are trying to stay alive... there just isn't that "Oh, S**T!" factor. The players never really fear anything because they know where the zeds are. Here is my idea:

Blind rules for the players, and No control rules for the zeds. How'd I come up with this? I finished the new scenario that mixes LNoE with some Space Hulk board pieces (not a lot of them... just a few.). I think I named it "Now or Never"... or something like that. It's at home with the layout and special rules (there are a LOT!). Anyways, here are how these 2 "special" rules will work.

Players' Blind Rules: Players will move on the boards as normal, but there will not be any zed pieces to be able to react to. The only time zeds will be placed on the board is when there is LOS from player to zed, and only a fleeting glimpse (LOS in mid-move) does count. Once on the board, the zed stays there, even if the player leaves LOS (heroes tend to keep track of walkers). Players can look into building thru walls, but that will give any zeds inside the same information. If a player does not look inside, then the zed will not react... unless there is Zombie Hunger.
- There is one very special rule that is in play when these blind rules are in play. A hero, that does NOT look inside of a building so doesn't know what is inside, may enter a Taken Over building. Once they enter, their movement ends, as they realize their mistake, and the next turn (if they are still alive) they must exit... post haste.

Zed No Control rules: Unfortunately for the Zed Master, unless there is food around, zeds tend to just meander around without rhyme or reason. This will be taken into account by the fact that once the zeds are spawned, they will move randomly, depending on dice roll. You can come up with your preferred method. Some examples: Roll a d6, on a 1-4, move them in a cardinal direction, on a 5... choose, on a 6 they stand still. You could roll a d8 and just assign a direction for each number. There are a couple others. If the direction walks them into a wall or edge of the board... they stand still. (They have no reason to claw thru walls... yet.) They can not see out of or into a building, unless a hero is looking out/ in. The zeds will detect heroes with zombie hunger... no matter what, if they are along the same wall as a hero looking in/ out, or with an LOS of 4 spaces.
-When a zed spots a hero, it will let out a groan that will alert the other zeds within 3 spaces of it. Once the zeds are alert, they are under the full control of the zed player.

I think these rules will bring a new dimension to the game which will allow the heroes to sneak and possibly avoid groups of zeds, and will also allow them to round a corner into a crowd of them. I haven't tried this rule out yet on my players, but I'm dying to do it.

Oh... you're wondering how the zed player keeps track of his boys, huh? Well, I made up an Excel sheet that would allow you to put in your buildings... depending on board layout, and then keep track of them that way... or you could print the page out in the needed layout and then put pencil to paper to keep track. I have other ideas for it, but this is already too long. If you guys want the Excel file I did up, let me know... it'll give you the idea of how to do it.

[Emp]

Nice idea. Might be worth having a look into that.
I'm not really sure about the zombie movement though.
Maybe adding the option so the zombie may move in the direction of a hero when on the same board? Zombies tend to go for noise as well, correct?

[kinkomaster]

Well, I went mostly by The Walking Dead and a couple movies that I've watched recently. I've always considered them reacting to smell first and sight second. If they reacted to sound, they would react to each other, don't you think?

[Emp]

Reacting to smell first? Seems a bit odd don't you think? They are dead so I think the decay will stink a bit more than your average living human
I don't think they will react to each other as they are in search of living flesh.
So I think first of all sound because that travels further then sight and smell. Sight being second and smell third.

I see zombies more as opportune predators, like hyenas. Not hunters like lions or wolves.

[kinkomaster]

Oh, I agree with you about them as the opportune predators... no doubt. There is no prowling up on a target for them. I have a problem with zombies reacting to sound first. Tell you what I'll do. I'll lay out a scene that I have from The Walking Dead that is stuck in my head when it comes to this and you tell me how you would interpret it.

The scene that I'm thinking of is when the 2 guys cover themselves in zombie goo to disguise their odor. Once they do that, they go out. Since they are separate from the zombie horde, the 2 zombies in the ally walk towards them when they see them. As they pass, the zombies sniff them and then let them pass. They then crawl under the bus and come out in the middle of the horde. Only the close ones reacted at all and that was to get a whiff. Once in the crowd, nothing reacted due to the smell of the dead on them.

You have to realize that once you are used to a smell, you don't register it anymore, and other scents are then easier to pick up. Let's face it... the smell of fear to a zombie must smell sweet! heh heh

Anyways, there is no real way to react to sound in the game, other than gunfire, explosives, or fighting... and I would take that under the "alerting the zeds" and having them move towards the noise, not the hero.

When I said react to smell first, it is pretty much for attacking purposes... I still had the scene above in my head. That would put the zed player at too much of a disadvantage, so I think reacting to sight should be, and more than likely will be, the #1 trigger. Once you get to smell... it is zombie hunger at that point anyways.

[Emp]

Personaly I don't like that scene because I think it is a bit too much. They also do that in Day Of The Dead, without covering themselves with smelly stuff.
We all can agree that zombies aren't very smart and upclose they can be mislead by smell. But I'm not convinced they can smell you a mile away.

Let's focus on the Walking Dead comics now (I'll keep the "scientific" books for later..hehe)
Why is it that Morgan Jones (the black guy who lives with his son in Rick's neighbours house) says to Rick:
"We try to keep quiet...they'd come after us if they knew we were here"

So that is noise discipline, right? Because he talks about zombies wandering into the yard and they take them out with a shovel.

When they get back with the guns they start targetshooting...all is fine then. But they get attacked that same night and not by one roamer but by many zombies.
Wich obviously means that they have been walking towards the noise but didn't get there untill late that evening.
Same thing happens again later on, Donna get's her face chewed of and Allen loses it, he fires his gun. As Rick is screaming "Don't Shoot!"
And you see in the comic many zeds turning their heads after Allen pops of the round.
So this proves that they react to sound over greater distances.
Allong the way this event keeps repeating itself and the characters keep stressing on being quiet.

I'm not sure if you have read the comics kinkomaster or if you just based you findings on the tv series (I find th tv show a little incomplete as a Walking Dead comics reader)

You also forget another thing that is making noise and that is people looking for stuff.
Ok, you can be very quiet when you do that, but I think when people are in a hurry or panic, they f up big time
So basicly you could use that as a reason why zombies are moving in on a hero position when on the same board.

- when a hero searches he has to make another roll on a D6. On a roll of 4+ the hero stays quiet and when he fails, the zombies on the same board move immediately one space.

I think by taking away the way zombies move in the normal game you put too much of an advantage in the heroes camp.
Even if they don't see them on the board. When they spot zombies and they come into play they can run away from them almost instantly.

Just my 2 cents though

[kinkomaster]

Excellent points. I never took sound into account because there was never much of a mechanic for it, but I really like the "search check" to keep quiet.

I think you are putting way too much weight on the distance I'm giving them the ability to smell. Their smell encompasses their Zombie Hunger zone... whether it is one or 2 spaces. The only reason that even matters is if the zeds don't know the heroes are there... ie: Hero in the building and not looking out, and zombie outside along same wall. The zombie wouldn't know that he's there until the hero moved within range for him to catch a whiff thru a broken window/ hole in the wall. I'm not expecting them to sniff them out from across the board or anything like that. In those examples, the sniffing zombies were right next to the heroes, so there was little to no range.

Ya, I would figure the show was a little washed out compared to the graphic series (no... don't have them). Just like the vast majority of movies don't do their books justice.

Alright, how about these addendum:
Zeds reacting by LOS will stay the same, since eyesight is not necessarily the best.
Smell is still the same... Zombie Hunger zone
Reacting to sound will entail moving towards any loud noises, gun fire, explosions, or loud searching (searching rules above). The zeds will move in the direction of the noise (should they fight thru walls to get there or shamble around obstacles) until the heroes are found.

Think of anything else? I put this on here for a lot of 2 cents.

[Graffical]

I know this is a LNOE discussion. But have you ever played "Betrayal at the House on the Hill"? It's not a zombie game, but it is a horror game, and they do have a zombies scenario. The thing about that game is you don't know what scenario you're playing until half way through the game. I've had some "OH SHIT" moments.

Just a suggestion.

[Emp]

I'm glad I could help

[kinkomaster]

Well, Graffical, does that game handle hidden creatures? How did you have your "Oh shit!" moments?