Zombie Team can never win...

[Bantile]

I bought Last Night on earth this weekend for both my brother and myself, and we really like the game, but either we are doing something wrong or the game seems very unbalanced in favor of the Hero team.

Our first game was a route for the Zombies, but after that the Humans won easily every time with a very simple strategy.

Essentially the humans just need to get to a building (the gun shop if available) then stick together and search for half of their available turns. At that point they will have so many cards that they can easily complete any mission from that point on. We normally end up with so many cards we can not use them all. Once the human team has a few guns, gasoline, hand weapons, and some cards, there is no way for the zombie team to catch up.

Some combinations, like the priest and nurse seem extremely unbalanced. The priest has a 67% chance to cancel ANY Zombie effect at the cost of one wound, and the nurse can just heal him at the end of every Hero turn, so with this combination the Hero team can cancel nearly everything the Zombie player tries to throw at them. Even the nurse in any team is a huge advantage for the Hero team.

I have gone through the rulebook, and the FAQ’s and cannot find anything we are doing wrong.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks

[mqstout]

Check the rules over. For example, Father Joe takes a wound even if he does not cancel the card successfully. The Becky's heal is very specific in its timing (at the end of the Hero Turn -- aka, after all heroes have moved). Are you checking ammunition/break rolls right? The shotgun gets checked (a separate roll) after each use; the pistol is discarded any time a 1 is rolled for it. (One degenerate strategy, which has been nerfed by a rules clarification, appears with the airport hanger/flare gun, is still a problem when it appears.) Do remember, the heroes can only search if they start their turn in a building, and do not move. It's move, or search. The humans, while not limited for event cards, still have a limited number of item cards they can carry.

The zombie player also should be playing his cards and not holding on to them. He has the option of discarding one every turn to draw a new one in its place. Unlike the heroes, who lose if they empty their deck, the zombies do not. No card should be kept more than a couple turns unused. If the heroes are bunching up, the zombie has lots of very powerful cards for when the are together, including the titular card, "This could be our last night on earth...", which causes loss of turns. There's also Unnecessary Self Sacrifice, causing an immediate wound for a zombie fight if they share a space.

There are the "resilient" cards that regenerate zombies and/or discard ranged weapons when used against a zombie. If you're not going through the deck to get them, the relevant cards, you'll be losing.

To counter the nurse's healing, the zombie has the Bitten cards (There are two; I forget their names. They vary only in their playing condition, but are the same in their triggering condition.) Once applied to a hero, the next time that hero takes a wound, he immediately dies and becomes a zombie hero. No questions asked, no healing. He could have already been full health and is now dead.

That said, which scenarios did you play? The "basic scenario" of kill 15 zombies is meant to be played with many of the cards not in the decks. Some other scenarios, those that rely heavily on scenario search items, are known to be very random. Escape in the Truck is like that. My favorite scenario is Defend the Manor House. Every time we play that one, it's a close race to the end. It's always a pressure between the heroes wanting to go to the perimeter to search, and needed to get to the center to keep the zombies out of the house.

Edit: Welcome aboard! I'm glad to see another new face.

[Bantile]

Thank you very much for your reply.

We have played all the scenarios, and even the two web scenarios that are for the base game. (Printed in full color and already laminated). Escape in the truck x 3 and Defend the Townsfolk x2 plus some others more than once.

We are playing Father Joe correctly, but as long as the nurse and him stay in the same square Nurse Sally can heal his wound every turn. Since he needs to roll a 3+ to succeed on Strength of Spirit, and Nurse Sally just heals the wound every turn, in effect the Hero team is cancelling 67% of all zombie cards with this combo alone (as long as they move together). It is just an added bonus that they cannot be the target of "Last Night on Earth". You throw a few guns in the mix to thin out approaching zombies and you are on easy street.

The Hero strategy is to get everyone in the same building in the same corner space so all the humans have the widest line of sight, then never move and just search and use ranged weapons and cards. Occasionally if the zombies start bunching up we send someone out with a gas can to thin them out a bit.

If you just stay and search for the first 8 turns or so like this, you will find enough items to make it through anything after that. Take Sheriff Anderson, Nurse Sally and Father Joe + anyone else, and get them to the gun shop ASAP. From that point on the game is won.

We are still having fun, and the games do come down to the final 2 turns or so, but they are really only close on paper.

The only strategy mistake we may be making is that the Zombie player may not be churning through his deck fast enough.

We are thinking about increasing the zombie limit above 14, or introducing random zombie hero spawns. (Like the Tank spawning in Left for Dead).

Thanks again for your reply.

PS Even though we never thought to use this, I agree with the hanger/flare gun rule - the hanger has unlimited flare guns just like the police station has unlimited shotguns.

[mqstout]

The same shotgun card, no matter if it goes to the discard and back into a hand, can only be used once per turn. It can't be fired and passed around, or broken, picked up, and fired again without waiting until the next turn to shoot again. Now, once they have more than one shotgun card in the discard, it's easier to keep it cycling. Even though Father Joe is immune to This Could Be..., he's not immune to the others (Bickering). Nor does it make others in his same space immune to it.

I'm not sure there's a ruling on it, but I could see Becky losing her heal if she loses her go for the turn. Official wiki says that it still triggers.

Target Nurse Becky with your damage to spread it out. She can't heal herself with her ability; only others. If you get the option to play Unnecessary Self Sacrifice after a Shambling (and probably leading in with a questionably useful card to lure Father Joseph into pre-wounding himself) zombie...

You guys are selecting your heroes instead of (as suggested) randomly dealing them?

[Doctor D]

I got my hero tail whipped while playing a game tester at gencon....
(hi paxe.)

[deadandwalking]

if you want to make it more challenging stop selecting the father and the nurse

[SovTech]

We normally select the heroes randomly, but we have a winning ratio of 40% to the heroes and 60% to the zombies. Remember that it is easy (in the start) to fend off zombies but harder to wound them (Zs win on tie, and you need a double to wound them). Pistols doesnt always hit (only on 4+), and the zombies should have a good chance of swarming heroes in a building. Normally you have 1 or max 2 turns of searching before the zombies arrive. With a little strategic placement, you can get the zombies to block the exits of the buildings and not only swarm them, thus making it unlikely the heroes will get away. Remember that heroes only can shoot out of buildings when they are up against the wall (pun intended), that they are shooting out off.

That said, there is a steep learning curve normally for the heroes at first and after that the Z master. Play and learn, and you will dine on the brains of great men

[Canadian Pittbull]

I have found in our games that the Zombies win the majority of the encounters and sessions we play. A lot of it comes down to die rolls, having the right cards at the right time and the Heroes can never see to agree on the strategy to win the day. That being said there have been times where the Heroes have taken been able to seriously outmatch the Zombies to win so it just comes down to the cards available, dice rolls and strategies.

We also randomly choose Heroes as per the rules. Makes for a better game in my opinion.

[Tommy Brownell]

Same here...zombies almost always win when we play. Not a guarantee, but it is WAY more than a 50/50 split.

To the original poster, from what you commented above, I would practically guarantee that the Zombie Players aren't cycling through cards anywhere near fast enough. No need to play conservative when you have unlimited resources (basically).

[fallensaviour]

Unlimited zombies always helps.I ordered several extra zombies from ffp,my house rules are simple no limit on zeds.
I spawn zombies continuously throughout the game until the heroes are dead or they win,simple as that.
When a hero dies I have the hero zombies painted up and their base matches the color of the zombie colors(brown,green,red)
That zombie hero now can control the color of zombie that matches his base.I assure you carnage ensues.