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Hi,

With all the expansions there is, if I am correct, 3 different weapon with instant kill. Meat Cleaver/Garden Shears/sledge Hammer

So the following situation situation might happen in a fight :

- Hero with a meat cleaver
- Zombie that plays "Fighting Instincts" and grabs the sledge hammer in the discard pile.

Both rolls a 6 therefore instant kill for both

At the moment In my group we make heroes roll first (as must have won 80% of the games as zombie master).

What do you think about this situation?

cheers.

My group, and I believe the game was meant for, simultaneous rolls. Since both are instant kills, there's no rerolling/etc that can be done to change the outcome.

I had never contemplated this before, but I would go with the simultaneous instant kill for both.

I have to agree with mqstout on both points.
The scene is easy enough to picture...mutual simultaneous annihilations -
-with an extra side of splatter

Both 'instants' would be worked out at the same time. But do not forget that even on an 'instant' kill, the final wound may be prevented with a 'Just A Scratch', etc. You just may not play any cards that would effect the Fight Dice.

We came across similar issues with fights involving the Barbed Wire zombie. Where the Hero rolled an 'instant' kill with a 6, but also rolled a 1. So the Barbed Wire was instantly killed, but the Hero also still took the wound.

I seem to be the only one disagreeing here.

Surely after picking up the Sledgehammer using the "Fighting Instincts" card, the zombie player would roll 1 dice and if he/she scored 4,5 or 6, the Hero would be instantly killed and would not get a chance to roll for his Meat Cleaver.

The Sledgehammer card clearly states the roll is taken before the Fight Dice are rolled:



What do others think??

Nope, all fight dice are rolled simultaneously. The point of that clause in Sledgehammer states that you must declare that you're going to use the sledgehammer before rolling the dice. (This is necessary because of the "only roll single fight dice" bit.)

I think the bottom portion is just a further clarification that it can't be used during a fight because then it wouldn't make any sense. Personally, I think the text should have been omitted.

mqstout Wrote:Nope, all fight dice are rolled simultaneously. The point of that clause in Sledgehammer states that you must declare that you're going to use the sledgehammer before rolling the dice. (This is necessary because of the "only roll single fight dice" bit.)

OH!!

Maybe the wording needs to be changed from "must be used" to "must be declared".

Any other time you "use" a Combat Bonus, you apply straight away - "I rolled a 6, I USE my Meat Cleaver Bonus to instantly kill your zombie!"

Okay I'm now (I think) completely clear on the Sledgehammer.

I'll crawl back in my box.

SlickJ1 Wrote:Both 'instants' would be worked out at the same time. But do not forget that even on an 'instant' kill, the final wound may be prevented with a 'Just A Scratch', etc. You just may not play any cards that would effect the Fight Dice.

We came across similar issues with fights involving the Barbed Wire zombie. Where the Hero rolled an 'instant' kill with a 6, but also rolled a 1. So the Barbed Wire was instantly killed, but the Hero also still took the wound.

Nope. Allow me to cut and paste from the FAQ here:

The Cleaver says zombies are killed on a 6. What if the zombie player rolls a 6 (or through card play gets a 7, etc)?

Actually, you'll notice that the Cleaver says, ‘instantly’ killed. That means if the Hero rolls a 6 at all, the Zombie is instantly killed and the fight ends immediately. Because it is instant, Zombies do not even get the chance to play cards (may not force a re-roll etc). Cleaver of doom indeed. Just don't get overconfident, I have seen many Heroes charge into a pack of Zombies with a meat cleaver and get torn to pieces.

(Jason C. Hill. Flying Frog Productions - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1699034)

There you have it. Instant means instant!! Once this happens, the fight immediately ends and no one gets to play any more cards to change the outcome of the fight. I just got done trying to explain this on another thread. Seems to be a common misunderstanding.

I'm still unsure of the rolling at the same time thing though. We usually do this also, but when I think about it, shouldn't it matter how's turn it is? If it is the zombie turn, then it could be argued that the zombie is attacking and therefore the zombie rolls first to attack, then the hero rolls to defend. And then the opposite on the hero turn. Do the rules even specify this sort of thing?

There's no real NEED to have both the Hero and the Zombie roll simultaneously on this situation. Just as long as both sides acknowledge that no cards may be played to change the dice rolls once an 'instant kill' on one or both sides has been rolled. The ONLY thing that can stop an 'instant kill' is an event or ability that 'ignores a wound'. The Hero/Zombie playing this event or ability would still fill all their wounds except for the last one, therefore stopping the 'instant kill'.