Need some Zombie player tips

[kirkhere]

Been playing with my sons and their friends, and of course they always want me to be the zombie player. It's cool. I dig the game.

But lately I've been having a bad run of losses. Enough so that even the boys were having a bit less fun.

Made me wonder if anyone has any tips on being the zombie player, things you do to improve your chances. Do you pile them on, keeping them in large-enough groups to deal with inevitable range weapon losses?

I want my zombies to be more effective, and I'm not thinking zombie-viagra.

Thanks,

~k

[nitro9090]

Zombies usually have the advantage in most games. So first off make sure you have all of the rules down, a lot of times new players get the game mechanics wrong and this can make a big difference. For instance, during fights are zombies only dying when heroes roll doubles and win the fight? (unless of course they have a card or ability) if they die whenever the heroes should only fend them off it makes it very hard for the zombie player

Next, as a zombie player, use your cards like crazy and if you can't use it in the immediate future toss it (you get one toss right before you pick up cards each round). Then keep laying on the pressure, if they have guns they will eventually run out of ammo and when you are storming a building make sure to cover the exits so they have a much harder time escaping.

These are the basics of being a good zombie player, the rest you have to take on a scenario by scenario basis and through practice.

Oh yeah and I personally never stack my zombies in fear of explosives and shotguns, but that's just me.

[Esturk]

Don't play defensively.It always seems like a good idea to lay zombies thick around hero objectives, but in the end it means you have a ton of zombies not doing anything on the board. This also means Heroes can sit across the board and pick you off, or toss a stick of dynamite and ruin your plan.

It's much better to simply throw your zombies at the heroes, at least then there's a chance they're causing wounds, and don't feel the need to have every zombie in your pool on the board before moving in on the heroes. The fewer zombies you have the more likely you are to spawn new ones.

That being said, don't waste your zombies when you throw them at the heroes. Utilize groups of 2 or 3, but spread out in different spaces in order to avoid them being killed by weapons like the shotgun. Even if none of the players have one in hand at that moment doesn't mean it's not on top of the hero deck.

Heroes have a bunch of fire arms? Lose as many zombies as you have to until they're out of ammo. If they're holding out in the gun shop(which the guys in my group like to do) then fan out a wall of zombies outside of their range and wait for movement cards that can get you moving quick and attempt to overrun them.

Always lights out/take over the Hospital, Pharmacy, Gun Shop, or Police station whenever you roll zombie's choice. These places tend to have heroes gravitate to them the second pick up cards hit the discard.

Movement cards are your best friend, the faster your zombies can move up on heroes the better. Conversely anything that hinders the movement of a hero is going to help you catch them.

Heroes holding out in the cornfield are a pain... but they're also basically a skipped turn for the heroes. If someone's in the corn field, ignore them for the most part. Send them a zombie now and then to make them think they're being crafty and out witting you, but focus on heroes you know you can fight. Unless your objective is specifically to kill the heroes before night fall you can potential have a player stuck in the corn field half the game.

Watch the heroes' cards and wounds and try to anticipate where they're going to go, either to catch up with another hero to help watch their back or trade items or to pick up locations where they can fulfill their needs. Knowing the player's personal preferences always help. If they absolutely love the shotgun and go for a pick up every time it's discarded keep some zombies on that side of the board.

There's plenty of other good strategies and i'm sure you already employ some of these, but I've found these give me the best chance and I rarely ever get to play the hero side of things.

[thanatos]

A lot of your strategy has to change depending on the scenario, too. Some scenarios you might actually benefit by establishing a two or three-space deep wall of zombies between the heroes and one of their objectives (unless they have Johnny in play), while other scenarios pay off best by chasing the heroes (or your own objectives) hard and heavy. No matter what scenario you're playing, though, follow Nitro9090's advice and don't be afraid to use your cards. A well-timed locked door can be enough to lose the game for the heroes, and Urgh and Undead Hate The Living are both invaluable during fights. If you draw "This Could Be Our Last Night On Earth" and there are no opposite sex pairings in play, discard it on your next turn. Likewise with Bickering and Catfight if your players don't tend to end their turns in the same space together.

Work out strategies based on how your players play, and you can start shutting them down and forcing them to think on their toes.

[kirkhere]

1) nitro9090: "For instance, during fights are zombies only dying when heroes roll doubles and win the fight?"

Oh, crap.

We've been on the move so much this past year that we've had many games put away in storage (unless they were small and easy to keep handy, like Zombie Dice). I actually forgot this, as did the boys. Okay, that's ONE big reason.

2) Yep, I held my cards too long. Ouch—felt that one.

3) Off-topic question stemming from about stacking zombies and weapons like shotguns. We played two games the other night and not one shotgun. We have LNoE with add-ons of GH, SotF, RotD (with Hero Pack to be opened yet), should we be playing with such a massive Hero Deck and Zombie Deck? The rule about "the last card in the Hero deck seems like a joke in that case." Does anyone limit their deck sizes, or is that rule just a not-really-a-game-decider anyway?

4) Focusing on movement (faster zombies, slower heroes) is real, real good. Thank you for that. It's not a perspective I picked up on. Those two games, my dead just had no movement to them.

I'll put all this into the brain-box and come back with results. It really helps to see this through better players' eyes. Thank you for all your input.

[jhwedmd]

Well it seems like you have gotten some really good advice so far, so I will just reiterate some things.

The cards are key. One of our guys who plays zombies regularly is devastating with card combinations. The last game we played he had about 7 or 8 'Remains in Play' Zombie cards stacked up and put the heroes at a major disadvantage.

Make sure to make the best of your movement. Since zombies are slow, cards like 'Shamble' can get you in position to pin a hero until others can jump on them.

Remember doors. One of the keys of Hero movement is that they cannot move through a zombie (except Johnny) which makes strategic placement a must.

Just some short notes from my experience.

jhwedmd

[Esturk]

Another good thing to keep in mind is the zombie hero card 'I feel kind of strange'. They're excellent ability killers on heroes that have abilities activated by taking a wound. since the card essentially reads 'next time that hero takes a wound,' you basically take away their ability unless they're willing to sacrifice themselves.

edit: lots of controversy as to whether this card effect comes into play before or after father Joseph's ability can cancel it... best to read up and go with which option you and the other players feel is fairest.

[thanatos]

As to the size of the hero/zombie deck - it really comes down to personal preference. My group plays with more than 60 cards, but less than our entire deck. I think we pulled about 10 cards out of each deck, and we have Growing Hunger, Hero Pack 1, and Stock Up. We mainly did this to give the cards we like a better chance of showing up and to get rid of a couple of cards we either thought were redundant or that we really hated, like Rotten Bodies, in my case (yes, the one-turn invincibility is cool, but it seems like I roll a 6 virtually every single time that damnable card is drawn, and it only ever comes up when losing 6 zombies off the field is the worst possible thing that could happen to the zombies).

Even when we just had the core game, though, I never saw the heroes run out of cards, so I've never really focused on those "If this causes the last card to be discarded, heroes lose" win conditions - I use those discards to take helpful items and events away from heroes and force them toward building pickups, which I can do a much better job guarding.

As far as stacking zombies goes, I much prefer that several-zombie-deep wall I mentioned - whether the shotgun comes up or not, this leaves me more options if a hero triggers zombie hunger, while still usually saddling the hero with two or three fights for their trouble, and it also protects the zombies against dynamite.

[nitro9090]

(08-04-2011 09:43 PM)kirkhere Wrote:  1) nitro9090: "For instance, during fights are zombies only dying when heroes roll doubles and win the fight?"

Oh, crap.

We've been on the move so much this past year that we've had many games put away in storage (unless they were small and easy to keep handy, like Zombie Dice). I actually forgot this, as did the boys. Okay, that's ONE big reason.

2) Yep, I held my cards too long. Ouch—felt that one.

3) Off-topic question stemming from about stacking zombies and weapons like shotguns. We played two games the other night and not one shotgun. We have LNoE with add-ons of GH, SotF, RotD (with Hero Pack to be opened yet), should we be playing with such a massive Hero Deck and Zombie Deck? The rule about "the last card in the Hero deck seems like a joke in that case." Does anyone limit their deck sizes, or is that rule just a not-really-a-game-decider anyway?

4) Focusing on movement (faster zombies, slower heroes) is real, real good. Thank you for that. It's not a perspective I picked up on. Those two games, my dead just had no movement to them.

I'll put all this into the brain-box and come back with results. It really helps to see this through better players' eyes. Thank you for all your input.

Yup, not following 1, 2 and 4 will make the ZP hurt, now go put the hurting on those kids.

3) The last card in the hero deck can come up in a few select situations with things like the supermarket or Jake in play, but even then it is rarely a game changer. You can play whatever house rules you like, so if you want to reduce heroes milling the hero deck (aka heroes squatting and drawing up the entire hero deck) you can reduce the deck size, otherwise we always play with all of the cards, they do have card matchups to take out of the hero deck and zombie deck if you do choose to pull cards. Also, with the setup you have, there should be 2 or 3 remove the top 10 cards from the hero deck and one hero deck loses its top card every turn card. So, if the heroes aren't careful enough in the longer games they may find their deck too low when these pop up.

All in all it isn't too important, but you can play the game however you like.

[kirkhere]

Hmmm.. well, it sorta worked (excited moan) and sorta didn't (deflated moan). Argh.

My scenario names escape me, but I can describe one success (and one failure)...

1. Played a scenario where the zombies had to destroy 6 buildings, and about 3 turns from the end I succeeded. The match went back and forth, and got a little tedious when my older son figured out he needed to use zombie hunger to draw my peeps away from their real goal - milling around in an empty building to destroy it. I ended up burning through half the zombie deck (not insignificant, since it was made up of cards from LNOE, GH, RotD, SotF, Stock Up, and HP1). The real win came when a special card fell my way and allowed me to take over a building and populate every space in it with zombies. Bam. Game over. Zombies 1, Heros 0.

Of course, this is a different type of scenario where the zombie aren't necessarily chasing heroes, but I concentrated on keeping them at bay while using all the extra movement cards I could to move them into to buildings.

2. The second scenario, was a PITA. I rolled junk. When I'd finally get 3-4 zombies to surround Amanda in one space, her damned "hide" ability (and her owner's unbelievable ability to roll 6 on demand) would cause zombie after zombie to not see her, and then the 4th zombie might get a chance to wound her. Or not. That occurred at least twice in the game, and she walked away with 1 wound each time, healing during the meantime.

And that effing hunting rifle is a bitch. Hero can take 2 shots with it, if he chooses not to move/search, and it spans a distance of 5 spaces. And those across the center of the board spaces are huge, so he has huge "reach" with it. Makes it a lot easier for him to keep the advancing zombie line at a distance.

As the Z player I play like crap, or something's still not right. In this one the Z player gets to roll 2 dice, plus some cards gave up to 3 or 4.

How many battles does it take to take down a hero, typically, for you guys? ... it seemed to take at least 2 battles to inflict a wound, and in between times they would heal each other, so I never made headway. I'm really frustrated by this.

The only enjoyment of this match was my younger son, playing the science teacher (always has fire), down to his last few cards was able to invoke one card so he could sacrifice the other two, which allowed him to retrieve a Play Immediately card from the discards, which further allowed him to grab yet another discarded card he needed so he could run from the corner of the board to the center square where he emptied the gas can and ignited it. Took himself out along with 7 zombies. A spectacular finish to a game I had no chance to win, but which he ended in classic fashion. That was cool.

But the overall match was disappointing as I never had the upper hand. Once they obtain several firearms my zombies are just fodder with a slow-moving attack. Without any tension over who's going to win, it becomes a long, drawn-out game. How to avoid that?