Resilients

[abomination]

I have to agree that ammo can be used to save the gun, even if resilient states immediatly. The reason I say this is because it also says the word discard, and discarding a gun card is the only criteria that the ammo looks for to be able to play it. also Immediatly still qualifies as being anytime as its still a measure of time regardless of however small, as in right now.

[Pred]

(09-14-2011 12:00 AM)nitro9090 Wrote:  He is the arbiter of this game and has made his ruling official, there were no ifs and/or buts about it. Did you ever think he didn't give an explanation because it wasn't needed. If you choose to play the house rule that you can't use ammo to defend against resilient then so be it, but please don't call people's integrity into question to win an argument over a board game, because nobody wins.

I don't understand why you are pointing fingers at me into making this personal, I clearly said it was only my opinion on the matter and how I play it, and I'm not the only one who thought that way. I even stated I didn't care who was right or wrong, nor am I pointing fingers at people or calling anyone's integrity into to play.

[abomination]

Thankfully we can all agree to disagree and use whatever rules or house rules we see fit.

[PJON]

Hi. yes, we can agree to disagree. Ok, so if a card states immediealey and other cards are allowed to be used. If you use a Meat Clever on me, I will Hate You and you can re-roll.

Cards and Abilities
Many cards and character abilities can be used during a fight to add more Fight Dice, re-roll, etc.

Unless stated otherwise, cards and abilities may always be used after the Fight Dice have been rolled to change the outcome.

For example, if a Hero rolls and is currently losing a Fight, he may then use a Hand Weapon’s Combat Bonus: or play a card to cancel that fight or to roll extra Fight Dice, etc.

A fight is only resolved after all players have decided not to use any more cards or abilities.

The only exception to this is that a card may NOT be canceled after it has already caused dice to be rolled (or re-rolled).

Some cards and abilities say that they may be played at any time, ‘except during a fight’. This means you may not play the card from when the Fight Dice are rolled to when the fight is resolved. You may play the card between fighting two different Zombies.

Immediatley has to have the same definition and action for both the Zombie and Hero Player.

Example: Immediatley discard gun, play a card
Meat Clever, Immediatley kill, play a card
Right ?

Just saying, and I dont think its a house rule. Its definition. Immediatly does not mean, do something else. It means do it first.

Hey by the way Sheriff is my number one pick. as a hero player im all about distance. Cant kill what you cant hit. and I dont care if i lose my gun. I will just get another one. My Sheriff is fat, old and lazy, but kills.

......grrrrrr....just plain ole grrrrrr.......

[thanatos]

Basically, it amounts to, "Game designer said it, so them's the breaks unless you use house rules," but if you want to get more technical than we've been getting, the real difference in what happens as a result of the meat cleaver vs resilient boils down to one of semantics.

For the meat cleaver, the zombie is instantly killed.

If the zombie player were to have a card that said, "Anytime a zombie would be killed/sent to the zombie pool, you may discard this card instead to prevent it," the condition of that card (killed) would work to counteract the effect of the meat cleaver, just like zombie event cards that say a zombie "may not be killed in any way" prevent the meat cleaver's instant kill.

For resilient, the gun is immediately discarded.

Ammo says "Anytime a (Gun) item would be discarded from this hero, you may discard Ammo in its place."

The gun being discarded fulfills Ammo's only condition for activation, but there are no cards currently that have a zombie death as a condition for activation (you never know, a future expansion might bring one). If there WERE a card that said, "Anytime a zombie would be killed, you may discard this card instead," however, it would be valid to use that card to counter the Meat Cleaver

Additionally, note that the Meat Cleaver uses the word instantly, while Resilient uses the word immediately. There is another thread over on Board Game Geek where Jason Hill, one of the game's creators, points out the difference in verbage as being significant (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/327438/a...n-or-two), and another one where a "counter" for the Meat Cleaver is discussed: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/654568/b...at-cleaver (essentially, barbed wire also has an instant effect, so both the meat cleaver and the barbed wire take effect at the same time if the hero rolls a 6, causing the zombie to die and the hero to take a wound)

Although, this does raise one question in my mind. One possible "counter" to the Meat Cleaver is "bitten," but its text says "Play this card on a Hero when they kill a Zombie in a fight. The next time the Hero would be wounded, instead they are turned into a Zombie Hero." Since the Meat Cleaver's wording states that it prevents the fight from resolving, I'm not sure if "Bitten" would actually be a legal counter. Methinks there's another question for the rules gurus

[PJON]

Example of Wording

If you drive off a 1000 foot cliff. You will IMMEDIATELY fall. At ANYTIME press the brakes to stop.

I forget the language term, but that is not an acurate statement. Yet, that is what your saying. Immediately discard, Anytime discard instead. Sorry, to me, you still went SPLAT !!!

[thanatos]

Actually, if you drive off a cliff, you will immediately fall. At anytime, you may jump out the door and attempt to land in a tree, spread-eagle your arms to attempt to slow your fall, or use the parachute you conveniently wore on your back today to control your descent rather than remaining in the car and resigning yourself to your fate.

As opposed to: A boulder falls on your car. Your car is instantly crushed; all occupants are instantly killed.

Like I said, it's an issue of semantics

[PJON]

(09-14-2011 05:06 PM)thanatos Wrote:  Actually, if you drive off a cliff, you will immediately fall. At anytime, you may jump out the door and attempt to land in a tree, spread-eagle your arms to attempt to slow your fall, or use the parachute you conveniently wore on your back today to control your descent rather than remaining in the car and resigning yourself to your fate.

As opposed to: A boulder falls on your car. Your car is instantly crushed; all occupants are instantly killed.

Like I said, it's an issue of semantics

I dont know about schematics, but that was funny

[thanatos]

I find that Wile E. Coyote always provides the best analogies

[PJON]

Yes, Wile E Coyote has it all planned out :p

Thanks for agreeing. Yes at anytime all of those things could be done. Yet, ummm you still immediately fall.

Hugz

I agree to disagree, but its also fun. I still think resilient immediately discards a gun, and some stop signs should be yeilds, but i follow the law. Kinda