Worst win/loss record as zombie player in the history of LNoE

[Kevthenurse]

I have a problem. When I play zombies, I lose. Always.

There are some scenarios when it seems most logical to me to run the clock (Die Zombies Die, Plague Carriers and Burn it to the Ground come to mind), but it has never worked; so now I try to win by killing four heroes. Only to have my horde cut down by range attacks before I can come close to swarming a hero.

If I have a card I can't use in one or two turns, I discard it. Even if it's a good one (breaks my heart to discard Off Guard, or that card that lets you borrow a hand weapon out of the discard pile (forgot it's name) because I have nothing in melee range). I try to play as many cards as I can so I am constantly running through the zombie deck. Shambles and Relentless Advances are my favorite cards to use so I can get my horde in position. It doesn't seem to last. Most of the time when I play a fight card, it works against me. I can't count the number of times I've given the hero a killing roll with the force the hero to reroll card.

Which brings me to Sally...god I hate Sally....

I don't like to play the card that gives me 2 extra fight dice but causes me to lose on a tie (winning on a tie is a hard advantage for me to give up. Odds are something like 58% to 42% in favor of the one who wins on ties--which makes Johnny particularly hard to kill).

The heroes I play against are so paranoid about landing in the same square as another hero, I don't bother keeping Bickering, This Could be Our Last Night on Earth or Cat Fight! cards anymore.

A lot of times I try to occupy the center, but I am starting to wonder if that is a good strategy (figure it slows heroes down but when all four of them have guns, they are all out in the open).

Perhaps worst of all, the best way I have found to kill a hero before they heal themselves sometimes is if I can drop Bitten or Feel Kinda Strange on them, but please understand I am not exaggerating when I say that the hero players unfailingly have or find cards that cancel the effect.

Even the law of probability says I should have more than one win under my belt by now. We've been playing since December, and my win loss ratio is about 1:10 or so...I haven't literally been keeping track of all my losses but I can guarantee that I have only one zombie win. To be fair though, I am more experienced as a hero player.

Is it possible that we aren't playing right...or do I just suck at playing zombies? <sighs>

[Akfromla]

I'm a full fledged zombie player, I've played heroes like twice. My ratio is probably like 50/50. I can say that make sure the heroes are rolling correctly for there out of ammo rolls and break rolls on those weapons. Make sure that they only kill your zombies when they roll doubles and have a higher roll. And if they "win" on a tie that does not mean that they deal a wound to your zombies, they need to "win" and have doubles.

[StayPuft]

For me, it always varies. I've won as heroes and lost as heroes. I've won as zombies and lost as zombies.

That is surprising, though, to hear you have only won as zombies once. A lot of people seem to say this game tends to be ever so slightly weighted towards the zombies. I would personally agree.

To be honest, though, a lot of what you say you do is exactly what I would suggest. Using your Zombie Cards as much as you can, for example, is a good strategy since the Zombie Player(s) always get more.

Perhaps some more seasoned veterans of the game can help you out a little better than I can... However, it really sounds to me like you are using good strategy as it is.

[Kevthenurse]

Sounds good. Thanks guys, I've been known to let a hand weapon roll slip from time to time. Just got Survival of the Fittest today. Perhaps it is a game changer for us, eh?[/align]

[LabRat]

Um, general advice:

- Draw from your experience as a hero player. Anticipate what the hero players would do. Not landing on the same square as other heroes? That means that they're rarely exchanging items - take advantage!

- Keep the heroes pressured so that they have little time to search, but don't balance your horde. Make sure that you have more emphasis on the weaker heroes, there are heroes that aren't that strong in Fights.

- Use the line of sight rules to your advantage and utilize the buildings for cover when you advance. It's not very thematic, but walking your zombies into the line of fire is just leading them into slaughter.

- Don't bunch up your zombies in single squares - that leaves you vulnerable to dynamite and pump shotguns.

- Use dice probabilities to decide when you should use your Fight cards. If, for example, you rolled a 5, then making the Hero re-roll his/her fight dice is more recommended than if you only rolled a 3. If I only rolled a 3 and they rolled a 4, I might just save my Fight card for a better situation. Sorry, forgot the names of the cards, was that Undead Hate the Living that made heroes re-roll their fight dice?

- Play the right scenarios. Not all of the scenarios are 100% balanced, in my opinion. Some are more challenging for zombies (e.g. Die, Zombies, Die is definitely leaning towards the humans), don't expect to win them. Try playing Defend the Manor as a zombie, play it 5 times and I'm sure you're going to have at least 1 win.

[Kevthenurse]

Good advice, LabRat. Die Zombies Die is actually the one scenario I won (once). I didn't kill a single hero, I just ran the clock. The heroes were: Johnny and the Sheriff played by one friend, and Sally and the Drifter played by the other--they always choose the same heroes, but if I'm on their team I like to mix it up, except I won't play two students.
Anyway, I got lucky early on when Sheriff lost his gun the second time he tried to shoot it, and I had time to gather my forces into buildings while the hero team looked for weapons. By the time they armed themselves they could not attack me for risk of being swarmed.
Now they've learned to not let me gather into buildings.
Going after the weakest hero is probably the best strat...heh, I usually pick Sally and Johnny as targets because I want them out of the game, but attacking the weakest makes the most sense. If I can get Jake out of the game before he can arm himself....hmmm.
What do you guys think of having two zombie players, harder or easier? I reckon it would be difficult for two zombie players to coordinate an attack, but sometimes two heads are better than one....<boggle>
I look forward to trying your advice, thanks LabRat!

[fitzgrimm]

Kevthenurse try having the hero players pick their characters at random. When I play if I pick my heroes I can win nearly 100% of the time. When you play has heroes how often do you win? If every time your group plays the zombies always loose I would double check that you are following all the rules properly. I know that when I started playing I did not set up the game correctly I would not put out my starting zombies which made it very hard to win, now that I do that and we pick heroes at random the games are about 50/50.

[samuraitrev]

It sounds like there's something wrong here.

Pick board sections and characters at random. That's what our group always do.

The Fight Mechanics (just to double check)
1) Heroes roll 2 Dice, Zombies roll a die. (unless there's some kind of modifier already in place).
2) Choose to use any cards to alter the scores. Or chose to use hand weapon combat bonus'. After all cards and combat bonus' have been taken into account go to 3.
3(a) Zombies win on ties or if they have highest number on any single die. The Hero takes a wound.
3(b) The Hero fends off the Zombie if they have the highest number on a single die. (The Hero won the fight but no wounds are caused).
3© The Hero kills the Zombie if they have any doubles and any single die is higher than the Zombie rolled. (The Heroes need to have BOTH to kill a Zombie in hand to hand. Doubles and a higher score on a single die).
Heroes DO NOT add their dice scores together. Usually the highest you can ever get is a 6.

I hope this helps please ask again if still unsure.

[Kevthenurse]

Oh. That explains a lot. Yes we have been allowing the option of choosing which heroes to play. I didn't know there were rules against it. Nice!

Clarification on modifiers to fight dice. Suppose a hero who isn't johnny and zombie both roll a 6. Hero plays a card that adds +1 to their roll making it a 7. Is that legal?

[samuraitrev]

(03-14-2013 05:56 PM)Kevthenurse Wrote:  Oh. That explains a lot. Yes we have been allowing the option of choosing which heroes to play. I didn't know there were rules against it. Nice!

Clarification on modifiers to fight dice. Suppose a hero who isn't johnny and zombie both roll a 6. Hero plays a card that adds +1 to their roll making it a 7. Is that legal?

In the base LNoE game it says something like players may choose their characters or pick at random.

In Timber Peak p.7 'The Hero Players then randomly draw 4 Hero Character Sheets to form the Hero Team.'

As Timber Peak is the most recent it has the mechanics down a lot better. For example the Black Zone is gone because there's Always Zombie Heroes. Little tweaks such as the set up procedure. The shuffle decks part has been moved to after you get your Heroes. The Instantly killed rules have been clarified. In my opinion the Timber Peak rulebook is The Game grown up a little bit. The original rule set is 6 years old now. Timber Peak is a better written rulebook and I think the new and improved version of the LNoE rules.