Resilients

[PJON]

I have this debate almost every game, please help

Hero shoots a Zombie, and it dies Hero then does the gun check and it does not break. Zombie player plays Resilient. Can the Hero player then discard an Ammo, if he has it ? OR Does the Hero automaticly discard the Gun ?

QUESTION: Start of a Hero Turn. Is this the start of any Hero's turn. Meaning Sally did her turn and now its Sam turn. OR is it the start of the Hero Turn. Meaning, Move sundial tracker Zombie Turn then the Hero turn.

Thankz, sorry if this was asked before.

[nitro9090]

For resilient, the cards say this:
resilient
Play this card when a Zombie is Killed by a Gun item to immediately discard that Gun.

Ammo
Anytime a (Gun) item would have to be discarded from this Hero, you may discard Ammo in its place

Ammo specifically says ANYTIME a gun would be discarded you may discard it in its place, if it instead said instantly discarded you couldn't use the ammo. So, yes you can use the ammo to prevent the loss of a gun due to resilient.

As for the hero turn stuff, Jason Hill answered that here: http://www.flyingfrogwiki.com/ffpwiki/in..._Hero_Turn

Apparently we have been playing that wrong during all of our games, good catch.

Feel free to ask these kinds of questions, that is one of the reasons we are all here.

[PJON]

(08-22-2011 03:23 PM)nitro9090 Wrote:  For resilient, the cards say this:
resilient
Play this card when a Zombie is Killed by a Gun item to immediately discard that Gun.

Ammo
Anytime a (Gun) item would have to be discarded from this Hero, you may discard Ammo in its place

Ammo specifically says ANYTIME a gun would be discarded you may discard it in its place, if it instead said instantly discarded you couldn't use the ammo. So, yes you can use the ammo to prevent the loss of a gun due to resilient.

As for the hero turn stuff, Jason Hill answered that here: http://www.flyingfrogwiki.com/ffpwiki/in..._Hero_Turn

Apparently we have been playing that wrong during all of our games, good catch.

Feel free to ask these kinds of questions, that is one of the reasons we are all here.

Hi Nitro. Thankz. I have been playing Resilient correctly I try to only play it on Chars with out Ammo. As for the Hero Turn question, thankz a bunch. I printed it out and will add it to my rule book. Silly Humans

[Pred]

OK this doesn't seem right to me.

You say:
resilient; Play this card when a Zombie is Killed by a Gun item to immediately discard that Gun.

The word Immediately means the same thing as Instantly to me so...

when you say:
Ammo specifically says ANYTIME a gun would be discarded you may discard it in its place, if it instead said instantly discarded you couldn't use the ammo

I don't see why you would be able to 1. roll to see if the gun breaks, and 2. use the ammo card to keep that gun. In my perspective, Gun shoots Zombie... dead... Zombie player plays card Resilient...gun should be discarded. I understand the Ammo card says Anytime a gun would be discarded, you can discard ammo in its place.
I think the ammo card is to be used if the weapon would be out of ammo/breaks due to your miss-fortunate roll, and not to be used to cancel a zombie card effect, to which the hero deck does have cards for this purpose. That's just how I see it, so I disagree that the ammo card would allow you to counter the Zombie Resilient card.

[PJON]

I like you Pred. I think your correct also. Just like the Meat Clever. Instantly, immeditly same to me as well.

I read and re-read the bgg FAQ. Yeah, Reslient. I finally get it.

Q. We are having trouble interpreting the Resilient card. The text only mentions that the gun is destroyed, but the name of the card and the quote both seem to suggest that the Zombie destroys the gun AND doesn't die.

A. I play it the way the text reads. The resilience could just mean it took all the rounds in the gun to put the zombie down.

Yeah, I think Pred is correct. ty

[nitro9090]

Well, I still hold that for this situation you were only required to use your guns full clip of ammo to take down the zombie, aka he is resilient, so if you have more ammo you can reload the gun.

Thematically, It isn't like the zombie player plays resilient so you run up to the zombie and beat it to death with the gun and it breaks in the process (although that would be funny), then you would have ammo and no gun. I assume when you run out of ammo you toss the gun because it is useless at that point.

Besides, the ammo basically says it takes the place of any gun that would be dropped, so essentially it becomes a gun proxy when a card discards it or the gun runs out of ammo.

let's here a rebuttal to that.

[PJON]

COUNTERPOINT

Hi. I hold it be true that when a Zombie is killed by a gun Instantly (my card actually reads Immediatly) discard that gun.

Instantly as in right now, no, not let me see if I have any bullet. No, not let me get something to drink first or answer my phone. Instantly as in RIGHT NOW. In your frenzy of shooting you already filled your clip and she kept coming. "She was a resilient bitch, but I got her" Overfiring the gun to cause it jam or overheat, whichever.

Much like a Meat Clever. Killed immediatly, as in right now.

Meat Cleaver
COMBAT BONUS:
If the Hero rolls a 6 on any of their Fight Dice, the Zombie is instantly Killed.

"Yeah,...well I have a card that makes you re-roll"

Resilient
Play this card when a Zombie is Killed by a Gun item to immediately discard that Gun.

As much as i wiould like to play a card on Meat Clevers, I cant.

Resilient - You had to shoot every shell you have to kill that Zombie.

The game was designed for the weapon to run out of ammo. Thats not what Resilient does. resilient is a way to remove a gun, from lets say the sherriff who has Laying down the Law. Much like the only way to Break the Meat Clever is to........ ???? any one anyone ? Get it Stuck. Its a balance to the game. Not a loop hole for whiny Heros.

POINT, your turn :P

---

(09-13-2011 07:36 PM)PJON Wrote:  COUNTERPOINT

Hi. I hold it be true that when a Zombie is killed by a gun Instantly (my card actually reads Immediatly) discard that gun.

Instantly as in right now, no, not let me see if I have any bullet. No, not let me get something to drink first or answer my phone. Instantly as in RIGHT NOW. In your frenzy of shooting you already filled your clip and she kept coming. "She was a resilient bitch, but I got her" Overfiring the gun to cause it jam or overheat, whichever.

Much like a Meat Clever. Killed immediatly, as in right now.

Meat Cleaver
COMBAT BONUS:
If the Hero rolls a 6 on any of their Fight Dice, the Zombie is instantly Killed.

"Yeah,...well I have a card that makes you re-roll"

Resilient
Play this card when a Zombie is Killed by a Gun item to immediately discard that Gun.

As much as i wiould like to play a card on Meat Clevers, I cant.

Resilient - You had to shoot every shell you have to kill that Zombie.

The game was designed for the weapon to run out of ammo. Thats not what Resilient does. resilient is a way to remove a gun, from lets say the sherriff who has Laying down the Law. Much like the only way to Break the Meat Clever is to........ ???? any one anyone ? Get it Stuck. Its a balance to the game. Not a loop hole for whiny Heros.

POINT, your turn :P

Im a zombie player so....Im standing up for my side. Maybe whiny was not a good word choice, but It is meant to get my point across. There are already to many guns in the game 4 revolvers 2 shot guns and im about to add 2 rifles. PICK UP: gun shop, police station. Besides running out of ammo what defense does the zombie player have agianst an overwhelming number of guns. Where is the balance ?

[nitro9090]

If the card said to drop the gun and all ammo I would agree with you, but it doesn't and therefore doesn't make sense to get rid of it if you have ammo.

I am usually the zombie player too and guns run out of ammo, on the off chance I play a hero I tend to have terrible luck with guns in which I lose them the turn I get them. Except with the crazy laying down the law combo, which I expect doesn't happen that often.

Either way as a zombie player you should know to guard the gun shop and sheriff's office at all times and even if they do get in chances are they are wasting time collecting guns and not accomplishing their mission.

Finally, theme should always win out over whininess over a couple guns in the game. besides your deck by this point is 100 cards or more they won't always draw the 8 guns in the deck.

the meat cleaver and garden shears on the other hand is way cheaper than any gun, there needs to be a better way to remove it from the heroes than getting stuck. These cards make me bitter.

[thanatos]

It all comes down to wording on the cards. Resilient makes the hero immediately discard a firearm, but ammo specifically says it can be used ANY time a gun would be discarded. Just like there are zombie cards that state zombies may not be killed in any way, which protects them from the Meat Cleaver/Garden Shears, the ammo card protects the hero one time from ANY situation that would cause them to lose a gun.

Full disclosure: I'm a Z-player, too, but my heroes have ammo far less often than I have resilient, so I tend to find the tradeoff is worth it

[PJON]

Hi. Its the word Immediatly/instantly, that does it for me. Immediatly/instantly, is not anytime. Like when you draw a "Play Immediatly" card, when do you play it ? Immedialty. yes if you have multiple Play Immedialties, you can pick which one first. BUT the Play Immediatlies are first.

Definition of INSTANTLY
1
: with importunity : urgently
2
: without the least delay : immediately

Like the Meat Clever, immedialty as in immedialty. Can you help me get past that wording. Sorry, immedialty/instantly discard that card

Pump Shotgun
RANGE: 2
You may fire at a space within Range. Roll a D6 for each Zombie in that space. Zombies are Hit on the Roll of 3+. Any Hero in that space is unaffected. Each time the Shotgun is fired, roll a D6. On the roll of 1 or 2, the Shotgun is out of ammo (discard).

Ammo
Anytime a (Gun) item would have to be discarded from this Hero, you may discard Ammo in its place.


Roll of a 1 or 2 out of ammo, discard the gun. If you have ammo, your good.

Thematicly, why would you toss an empty gun. LOL why is it after the bad guys shoot bullets at superman, with no effect. they trow it at him, and he flintches.

It took me a while to except the terms Kills as in it kills my Zombie Sam with 4 wounds, NO WAY. Yup the Hero said. I rolled 2 higher than you with a cicular saw , and now your dead agian.

Immedialty is as in immediatly.